5251. 'And Pharaoh said to Joseph' means a perception expressed by the natural but belonging to the celestial of the spiritual. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' in the historical narratives of the Word as perceiving, often dealt with already; from the representation of 'Pharaoh' as the natural, dealt with in 5079, 5080, 5095, 5160; and from the representation of 'Joseph' as the celestial of the spiritual, dealt with in 4286, 4592, 4594, 4963, 5086, 5087, 5106, 5249. The reason why a perception expressed by the natural but belonging to the celestial of the spiritual is meant is that the Lord is represented by both 'Joseph' and 'Pharaoh'. 'Joseph' represents His celestial of the spiritual and 'Pharaoh' His natural, and therefore 'Pharaoh said to Joseph' means a perception which the Lord had, which originated in the celestial of the spiritual and was present in the natural. But nothing intelligible can be stated regarding the identity and essential nature of that perception unless some idea has been formed first of what spiritual perception and the celestial of the spiritual are, as well as some idea about the essential nature of the natural being distinct and separate from that of the spiritual. Some reference has indeed been made previously to these matters; but one needs to be reminded of them.

5249. 'And came to Pharaoh' means a communication with the new natural. This is clear from the meaning of 'coming' in this instance as a communication through influx; and from the representation of 'Pharaoh' as the new natural, dealt with in 5079, 5080, 5244. What the words in this verse hold within them is evident from the explanations of them that have been given; for those words describe how Joseph was set free from the pit and came to Pharaoh. In the internal sense 'Joseph' represents the Lord so far as the celestial of the spiritual is concerned, while 'Pharaoh' represents the natural or external man. 'The pit' in which Joseph was confined represents a state of temptation endured by the Lord which involved the celestial of the spiritual, while his being called from the pit by Pharaoh means a state of release from temptations, and also a state of influx and communication after that with the new natural. From all this it is evident that the internal sense contains a description at this point of how the Lord made His Natural new and at length Divine.

[2] These are the matters that celestial angels contemplate when such historical details are read by man. To contemplate such matters is also their greatest delight, for they live in the Lord's Divine sphere and so they are as it were in the Lord. They know the deepest joy when they are thinking about the Lord and about the salvation of the human race, which took place because the Lord made the Human within Himself Divine. Also, to enable angels to go on experiencing that most heavenly joy and at the same time wisdom, a full description of that Divine process has therefore been given in the internal sense of the Word. This sense includes at the same time the process by which man is regenerated, for man's regeneration is an image of the Lord's glorification, 3138, 3212, 3296, 3490, 4402. Many will perhaps be wondering what angels talk about to one another and consequently what people after death who become angels talk about. Let those who so wonder know that angels talk about the kinds of matters that are contained in the internal sense of the Word, that is to say, about the Lord's glorification, His kingdom, the Church, the regeneration of man by means of the good of love and the truth of faith. But when they do so they use profound ideas which for the most part are beyond description.