1442. 'As far as the oak-grove of Moreh' means a first perception. This too becomes clear from the sequence of events. It is clear that as soon as Jehovah appeared to the Lord in His celestial things the Lord had attained perception. Celestial things are the source of all perception. What perception is has been stated and shown already in 104, 202, 371, 483, 495, 503, 521, 536, 865. When anyone attains to celestial things he acquires perception from the Lord. All who have become celestial people, such as members of the Most Ancient Church, have acquired perception, as shown already in 125, 597, 607, 784, 895. All who become spiritual people, however, that is, who acquire charity from the Lord, have something akin to perception, namely the voice of conscience, strong or weak, in the measure that the celestial things of charity exist with such persons. This is how it is with the celestial things of charity, for it is in these alone that the Lord is present, and in these that He manifests Himself to man. How much more must this have applied to the Lord, who from infancy moved closer to Jehovah, and was joined and united to Him so that they were one?

371. When the most ancient people used the phrase 'Jehovah is saying' they meant perception, for they recognized that it was the Lord who enabled them to perceive. This perception could last only so long as love remained the chief thing. When love to the Lord, and so love towards the neighbour, died out, perception came to an end, the amount of love that remained determining the amount of perception they had. This power of perception was peculiar to the Most Ancient Church, but after faith had been separated from love, as it was among those following the Flood, and charity was conferred through faith, conscience took the place of perception. This conscience was a dictate as well, though in a different way; but this in the Lord's Divine mercy will be discussed later on. When conscience dictates, it is likewise said that 'Jehovah says' in the Word, for conscience is formed from things revealed in the Word, and from cognitions derived from it. And when the Word states or dictates, it is the Lord who is stating. Consequently nothing is more common, even today, than to assert that 'the Lord is saying' when referring to some matter of conscience or of faith.