7356. 'And into your ovens, and into your kneading bowls' means into delights belonging to evil desires. This is clear from the meaning of 'ovens', since they are what bread is baked in, as forms of exterior good (forms of exterior good being those which exist in the natural and are as a general rule called delights; for when forms of interior good, which are offshoots of [heavenly] kinds of love and resulting affections, pass into the natural they are experienced as delights there, and these delights are meant in a good sense by 'ovens') or in the contrary sense, in which 'ovens' is used here, as delights belonging to evil desires, that is, delights springing from hellish kinds of love, which are self-love and love of the world; and from the meaning of 'kneading bowls' too as delights belonging to evil desires in the natural, but even more external ones since kneading bowls are the vessels in which the dough is prepared when bread is made. Another way of saying that reasonings will enter into delights belonging to evil desires is to say that it will be the delight of their life to use reasonings arising from falsities to deceive others and lead them astray. Indeed the evil take very great delight in spreading falsities around, proving that they are well-founded, mocking truths, and especially leading others astray.

[2] The fact that 'an oven' means delight belonging to affections that go with charity and faith, and in the contrary sense delight belonging to evil desires that go with selfish and worldly love, is evident in Hosea,

They are all committing adultery, like an oven heated by a baker; the raiser ¹ ceases from kneading his dough. When like an oven they transform ² their desire (animus) while they lie in wait, their baker being sleepy all night, in the morning it is burning, like a flaming fire. All become hot, like an oven, and devour their judges; all their kings fall. Hosea 7:4, 6-7.

'Oven' stands for delight belonging to evil desires, which are evil people's desires. 'Burning', 'becoming hot', and 'flaming fire' stand for the desires themselves, 'fire being the desire for evil, see 1297, 1861, 2446, 5071, 5215, 6314, 6832, 7324 (end). 'They devour their judges; all their kings fall' stands for the fact that they destroy forms of good and truths. Anyone may see that without the internal sense in which such things are meant nobody can know what 'they are all committing adultery, like an oven heated by a baker' is, or 'all become hot, like an oven, and devour their judges', and 'their kings fall'.

[3] 'Oven' is used in the good sense in Isaiah,

The saying of Jehovah, whose hearth is in Zion, and His oven in Jerusalem. Isaiah 31:9.

'Zion' stands for the celestial Church, thus for the good of love, which is the good of this Church, 'Jerusalem' for the spiritual Church, thus for the good of love in this Church, which is the good of charity and consequently of faith, while 'oven' here stands for more internal delight belonging to affections for goodness and truth. 'Oven' has this meaning because the bread which is baked in an oven means the good of celestial and spiritual love, for which meaning of 'bread' see 276, 680, 2165, 2177, 3464, 3478, 3775, 3813, 4211, 4217, 4735, 4976, 5915. And as 'oven' receives its meaning from this, the bread called a minchah that was baked for sacrifices in an oven was distinguished from the minchah baked on a griddle, and from the minchah baked in a covered pan, Leviticus 2:4-5, 7. Different forms of the good of love were meant by these varieties of minchah.

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3726. 'And placed it as a pillar' means a holy boundary. This is clear from the meaning of 'a pillar', dealt with in the next paragraph. The meaning here becomes clear from what has gone before, that is to say, the subject is the order by which the Lord made Divine His Natural, and in the representative sense how the Lord makes new or regenerates man's natural. The nature of that order has been stated and shown above in various places, that is to say, order is inverted while a person is being regenerated, and truth is placed first; but proper order is restored once that person has been regenerated, and good is in first place and truth in the last; see 3325, 3330, 3332, 3336, 3539, 3548, 3556, 3563, 3570, 3576, 3603, 3688. This was represented by the stairway by which angels were going up and coming down, where first it is said that they were going up, and then that they were coming down, 3701. This going up is the subject at present, that is to say, a going up from the ultimate degree of order, which is referred to just above in 3720, 3721. Here therefore truth as it exists in the ultimate degree of order is meant. This ultimate degree is called a holy boundary, and is meant by the stone which Jacob took and placed as a pillar. The existence of truth as the ultimate degree of order becomes clear from the consideration that good cannot be encompassed by good, only by truth, for truth is the recipient of good, 2261, 2434, 3049, 3068, 3180, 3318, 3387, 3470, 3570.

[2] Good with a person which is devoid of truth, that is, which is not joined to any truth, is like the good which exists with young children, with whom as yet no wisdom at all is present because no intelligence at all is there. But as a young child grows older so he receives truth stemming from good, that is, as in his case truth is joined to good, so he becomes more truly human. From this it is evident that good is the primary degree of order and truth the ultimate. Consequently from facts which are the truths of the natural man, and then from matters of doctrine which are the truths of the spiritual man within its natural, a person must start to be introduced into the intelligence that leads to wisdom, that is, he must start to enter into spiritual life which makes a person human, 3504. For example, to be able to love the neighbour as a spiritual man does, a person must first learn what spiritual love or charity is, and who the neighbour is. Until he knows these things, he is indeed able to love the neighbour, but only as a natural man, not as a spiritual man does; that is, his love towards the neighbour is a product of natural good, not of spiritual good, see 3470, 3471. But once he does know those things spiritual good from the Lord may be implanted within cognitions concerning love towards the neighbour. The same applies to all other things that are called cognitions, matters of doctrine, or truths in general.

[3] Reference is being made here to good from the Lord that may be implanted within cognitions, and also to truth that is the recipient of good. But people who have no other conception of cognitions, and also of truths, than that these exist as mere abstractions - which is most people's conception too of thoughts - cannot possibly grasp what is meant by good implanted within cognitions or by truth that is the recipient of good. But it should be recognized that cognitions and truths no more exist in isolation from the purest substances belonging to the interior man or man's spirit than sight exists in isolation from its own organ, which is the eye, or hearing from its own organ, which is the ear. There are purer substances, which have real existence, and it is from these that cognitions and truths are brought into actual being. The variations in form taken by those substances are such that they give life to and modify those cognitions through the influx of life from the Lord and enable them to be apprehended. And it is the agreements and harmonious relationships of those substances, whether these exist consecutively or simultaneously, that stir people's affections and constitute that which is called beautiful, pleasant, and delightful.

[4] Spirits themselves are forms, that is, they consist, as much as men do, of a whole combination of forms. But those forms consist of purer substances not visible to the sight of the body, that is, of the eye. Now because those forms or substances are not visible to the eye of the body mankind today inevitably conceives of cognitions and thoughts as mere abstractions. This is also the reason for the insanity of our times, in that people do not believe that they have a spirit within them which will live after the body has died - yet the spirit is a substance far more real than the material substance constituting the body. Indeed, if you can believe it, following its release from bodily things the spirit is the purified body itself, which many say they will possess at the time of the last judgement when, they believe, they will first be resurrected. The fact that spirits, or what amounts to the same, souls, are endowed with a body, see one another in broad daylight, talk to one another, hear one another, and actually have far keener senses than when they were in the body or the world, becomes quite clear from what I have told so abundantly from experience.