5146. 'And in the highest basket' means the inmost degree of the will. This is clear from the meaning of 'a basket' as a degree of the will, dealt with above in 5144; and from the meaning of 'the highest' as the inmost part, dealt with in 2148, 3084, 4599. The reason 'the highest' means the inmost part is that while a person is an inhabitant of space, interior things are seen by him as higher and exterior ones as lower. But when spatial ideas are laid aside, as happens in heaven and also in a person's interior thought, the idea of height and depth is also laid aside; for height and depth belong to spatial ideas. Indeed in the inner heaven not even the idea of interior things and exterior ones exists because even that idea has a spatial element attached to it. Rather, the idea in that heaven is of a state of greater or lesser perfection; for interior things exist within a greater state of perfection than exterior ones because interior things are nearer to the Divine and exterior ones more remote from Him. This is the reason why that which is highest means that which is inmost.

[2] Nevertheless no one can have a mental grasp of the relationship of what is interior to what is exterior unless he knows about degrees, regarding which see 3691, 4154, 5114, 5145. Man has no other notion of what is interior and consequently more perfect than the ever increasing purity of something the more one breaks it down. But greater purity and greater grossness can exist simultaneously in one and the same degree, owing not only to the expanding and condensing of it but also to the limitation of it and to the introduction of similar or else dissimilar elements into it. With an idea such as that regarding his interiors man cannot possibly do other than think that exterior things are attached in a continuous manner to interior ones, and so act entirely as one with them. But if a proper idea regarding degrees is formed one may grasp how interior and exterior things are distinct and separate from one another, so distinct that interior things can come into being and remain in being without exterior ones, whereas exterior things can never do so without interior ones. One may also grasp the nature of the correspondence of interior things within exterior ones, as well as the way in which the exterior things can represent interior ones. This explains why, other than hypothetically, the learned are unable to examine the question regarding the interaction of the soul and the body. Indeed it also explains why many of them believe that life belongs intrinsically to the body, and thus that when their body dies their interiors will die too since these are closely attached to the body. But in actual fact only the exterior degree dies; the interior degree survives and goes on living.

2831. 'Behind [him] caught in a thicket' means entangled in natural knowledge. This is clear from the meaning here of 'caught in' as being entangled in, and from the meaning of 'a thicket' or fan entanglement' as factual knowledge, to be dealt with in what follows. Those who are spiritual are caught and entangled in natural knowledge as regards truths of faith for the following reasons: Those who are spiritual do not possess the perception of good and truth as those who are celestial do. Instead of perception they have conscience, which is formed from the goods and truths of faith which from early childhood they have taken in from parents and teachers, and after that from the doctrine of the faith into which they were born. The only way that those who do not possess the perception of good and truth can receive confirmation is from facts. Everyone forms some concept for himself regarding the things he has learned, and also regarding the goods and truths of faith. Without that nothing remains in the memory except as an empty vessel. Details that serve to confirm - derived from other cognitions, and even from factual knowledge - are added to and fill in the concept. The concept itself confirmed by many details not only causes itself to be fixed in the memory, from which it may be called forth into thought, but also enables faith to be instilled into it.

[2] As regards perception in general, since few know what perception is, this must be stated here. There is the perception of what is good and true in things that are celestial and spiritual; there is the perception of what is just and fair in public life; and there is the perception of what is honourable in private life. As regards the perception of what is good and true in celestial and spiritual things, this is the perception which the more interior angels possess from the Lord. It was also the perception which members of the Most Ancient Church possessed, and it is the perception which celestial people possess, who are moved by love to the Lord. These people know in an instant from a certain inner awareness whether a thing is good and whether it is true, for the Lord instills it into them because they are joined by love to Him. But spiritual people do not possess such perception of what is good and true in celestial and spiritual things. Instead of perception they have conscience which dictates. Conscience however, as has been stated, is formed from cognitions of good and truth which they have taken in from parents and teachers and later on from their own devotion to doctrine and the Word. And on these cognitions they pin their faith, even though these may not be goods and truths to any great extent. This being so, people can have a conscience that is derived from any variety of doctrine; even gentiles possess something not unlike conscience, derived from their own form of religion.

[3] The fact that those who are spiritual have no perception of the good and truth of faith but say and believe to be true that which they have learned and grasped becomes quite clear from the consideration that everyone calls his own tenets the truth - heretics more than others - and from the consideration that they are unable to see, let alone acknowledge, the truth itself, even though thousands of things might declare it. Let everyone search within himself to see whether he is able to perceive from any other source whether a thing is true, and whether when that which is absolutely true is made plain to him he still does not acknowledge it. Take for example someone who makes faith and not love the essential of salvation. Even if all the things were read out to him which the Lord spoke regarding love and charity, see 2371, and even if he knew from the Word that all the Law and all the Prophets hung on love to the Lord and charity towards the neighbour, he would still persist in the idea of faith and would say that this alone was what saved. It is altogether different in the case of those who possess celestial and spiritual perception.

[4] But as regards the perception of what is just and fair in public life, those in the world who are rational possess this, together with the perception of what is honourable in private life. So far as these two types of perception are concerned, one person differs from the next; but this in no sense implies that such persons possess the perception of the good and truth of faith, since this kind of perception is higher or more interior and flows in from the Lord by way of the inmost part of the rational.

[5] A further reason why spiritual people do not possess a perception of the good and truth of faith is that good and truth are not implanted in the will part of their minds, as in the case of celestial people, but in the understanding part; see 863, 875, 927, 1023, 1043, 1044, 2256. This is why spiritual people are not able to enter the first region of the light that celestial people dwell in, 2718, but in comparison with them are in obscurity, 1043, 2708, 2715. The fact that those who are spiritual are entangled in natural knowledge as regards truths of faith follows from this.

[6] As regards 'a thicket' or 'an entanglement' in the internal sense meaning natural knowledge, that is, factual knowledge such as becomes fixed in the exterior memory, this may also be seen from other places in the Word: in Ezekiel,

Behold, Asshur was a cedar in Lebanon, beautiful in its boughs, and a forest shade, and lofty in height, and its trunk among entangled boughs. Ezekiel 31:3.

This refers to 'Egypt', which is knowledge, 1164, 1165, 1186, 1462. 'Asshur' stands for the rational, 119, 1186, which in the Word is also 'a cedar', and 'Lebanon' as well. 'Among entangled boughs' stands for among facts, for the human rational is based on the facts known to it which it commands.

[7] In the same prophet,

Thus said the Lord Jehovih, Because you are exalted in height, and he has set his trunk up among entangled boughs, and his heart has become lifted up in his height, foreigners, the violent of the nations, will cut him down and cast him out. Ezekiel 31:10, 12.

This refers to Egypt. 'Setting his trunk among entangled boughs' stands for sticking to facts and looking at spiritual, celestial, and Divine things, from them as the standpoint. In the same prophet,

This is in order that none of all the trees by the waters may exalt themselves in their height, and set their trunk up among entangled boughs, and that none of all that drink water may reach above them in their height, for they will all be given over to death, to the lower earth in the midst of the sons of men, to those going down to the pit. Ezekiel 31:14.

This refers to those who wish by means of reasonings based on factual knowledge to penetrate the mysteries of faith; these become totally blind, see 215, 232, 233, 1072, 1911, 2196, 2203, 2568, 2588. Reasoning based on facts is the meaning of 'setting their trunk up among entangled boughs'. In the same prophet,

It had strong shoots as sceptres for those who have dominion, and its height rose up above among entangled boughs. Ezekiel 19:11.

Here the meaning is similar.

[8] In the same prophet,

The slain of Israel in the midst of their idols, around their altars, and under every green tree, and under every entangled oak. Ezekiel 6:13.

This refers to the kind of worship which people invent for themselves who have faith in themselves, and so in those things which they hatch out from their factual knowledge. 'An entangled oak' stands for facts as they exist in that particular state, 'oaks' meaning perceptions arising out of facts, see 1442, 1443, 2144. The same feature occurs elsewhere in the same prophet,

They looked at every high hill and every entangled tree, and there they offered their sacrifices. Ezekiel 20:28.

'Entangled tree' stands for things which are not dictated by the Word but by a person's own factual knowledge. The fact that worship used to take place in groves and depended for its meaning on the nature of the trees, see 2722.

[9] In Isaiah,

For wickedness will burn like a fire, it will consume brier and thorn, and will kindle the entangled boughs of the wood. Isaiah 9:18.

'Brier and thorn' stands for falsity and evil desire, 'the entangled boughs of the wood' for facts. In the same prophet,

Jehovah Zebaoth will hew down the entangled boughs of the wood with an axe, and Lebanon will fall by a majestic one. Isaiah 10:34.

'The entangled boughs of the wood' stands for facts, 'Lebanon' for rational concepts. In Jeremiah,

Raise a standard towards Zion, for I am bringing evil from the north, and a great destruction. A lion has risen up from his thicket, and a destroyer of nations has set out and come from his place to make your land a waste. Your cities will be destroyed, and left without inhabitants. Jeremiah 4:6-7.

'From his thicket' stands for from factual knowledge, and that which 'rises up' from this and enters into Divine arcana 'makes the land a waste', that is, lays waste the Church.

[10] The reason why in the Word facts are called 'thickets' is that facts are by nature like thickets, especially when the desires of self-love and love of the world, and false assumptions, exert an influence on them. Celestial and spiritual love is a love which arranges into order the facts that belong to the external memory, whereas self-love and love of the world disrupt that order and bring confusion to everything there. These are matters of which man is not aware because he takes that to be order which in fact is perverted order, that to be good which in fact is evil, and that to be truth which in fact is falsity; therefore those things are 'in a thicket'. He is also unaware of these matters because the things that belong to the external memory where facts reside are - in comparison with those that belong to the internal memory, where rational concepts reside - in a thicket, or in some gloomy woodland. How shadowy, gloomy, and darkened it is there in comparison, nobody can know as long as he lives in the body, for during that time he imagines that all wisdom and intelligence arise from facts; but he will know it in the next life when he has entered the things that belong to the internal memory. In the external memory which is proper to man during his life in the world nothing is more lacking than the light of wisdom and intelligence. But that everything there is by comparison dark, disordered, and entangled, see 2469-2494.