4856. 'And it was pointed out to Tamar, saying' means some kind of communication with the Church that was representative of spiritual and celestial things. This is clear from the meaning of 'being pointed out' as discernment, dealt with in 3608, and so as communication, here some kind of communication; and from the representation of 'Tamar' as the Church that was representative of spiritual and celestial things, dealt with in 4829, 4831. Communication with this Church is a phrase describing what happened when the state underwent a change and there was some kind of a raising up to consult the interests of the Church, dealt with above in 4850, 4853.