8928. 'And Moses drew near the thick darkness where God was' means a joining even of the truth of spiritual good to God's truth. This is clear from the representation of 'Moses' as God's truth below heaven joined to God's truth in heaven, consequently an intermediary kind of truth - dealt with in 8760, 8787, 8805 - thus the truth of spiritual good (for such truth is God's truth below heaven, which exists with the spiritual Church represented by the children of Israel; and Moses as the head of that Church represents this truth, 7014); from the meaning of 'drawing near' as a joining together, for drawing near the Divine is being joined to Him; and from the meaning of 'the thick darkness' as God's truth as it exists with those who belong to the spiritual Church, and also as it existed with that people whom Moses was set over as leader. The reason why God's truth is 'thick darkness' to both these is that neither of them is in any light as regards God's truths.

[2] Let those who belong to the spiritual Church be dealt with first. Those who belong to it believe that they are in the light. Yet they are in obscurity, indeed in thick darkness, so far as God's truth is concerned, as is clear from the consideration that they have no inner perception enabling them to see whether what the Church says is indeed the truth; they know it to be such only because the Church says it. What the Church says they firmly accept, whether it is false or true. And anyone devoid of any inner perception to see God's truth is in thick darkness, or what amounts to the same thing, Divine Truth is for him thick darkness. Members of the spiritual Church do not know for example, and have no wish to know, of the existence of an internal sense in the Word; and if they do perhaps come to believe in its existence there, it will not be because they perceive it for themselves but because of some other influence inducing them to believe it.

[3] Members of the spiritual Church, to take another example, say that faith is the one and only means of salvation, even without charity and the good deeds of charity. They believe this because the Church says it. They do not arrive at that light of perception in which they may see for themselves that faith does not exist except where charity does, or that the one belongs to the other as one person does to another in marriage, and therefore that charity is the essential element of the Church, because of its coherence with good. This also shows what obscurity or thick darkness the spiritual Church is in. And being in such darkness they divide the Church into many different Churches, as many as the variant doctrines presenting the truths of faith, a situation which would never arise if they were in the light. For one who is in the light never doubts, skill less denies that love to the Lord and charity towards the neighbour are the essential elements of the Church, or that all the truths which the Word contains, consequently all the truths of faith, are founded on them. He likewise never doubts any of the other truths which hang on this law and are called the truths of faith. But these matters have been shown more plainly in 2708, 2715, 2831, 2849, 2935, 2937, 3241, 3246, 6289, 6427, 6865, 6945, 7233. Those who belong to the spiritual Church do not arrive at even the outermost threshold of the wisdom or of the light in which those are who belong to the celestial Church, 2718, 3833, 6500.

[4] The second reason why it says that Moses entered thick darkness when he drew near God is that as their leader 'Moses' represented the Israelite and Jewish people, who were in darkness regarding internal truths, so thick that they were totally ignorant of them; for they considered all of worship and everything Divine to consist in external things. This is why the Divine was for them thick darkness; for as everyone well knows, the Divine never dwells in thick darkness but in light, since the Divine is light itself. When therefore the Divine is called 'thick darkness', it describes what He is so far as those who do not dwell in any light are concerned; for Divine Truths which compose the light of heaven do not appear to them to be anything else than such darkness, because they do not believe them, indeed they deny them. How the Divine appears to anyone is determined by the essential nature of the person's life and faith. Consequently He appears as light to those who are in the light, and as thick darkness to those who are in thick darkness. The fact that the Israelite and Jewish people were such, see 3479, 3769, 4281, 4293, 4307, 4314, 4316, 4433, 4680, 4825, 4832, 4844, 4847, 4865, 4903, 6304, and that the Lord on Mount Sinai appeared to them in smoke, cloud, and thick darkness, in keeping with the essential nature of that people, 1861 (end), 6832, 8814, 8819.

6075. 'Both we and our fathers' means that this was so since the time of the ancients. This is clear from the meaning of 'fathers' as those who belonged to the ancient Churches, dealt with in 6050. In the Word there are many places referring to the Jews and Israelites in which their fathers are spoken of in a praiseworthy manner. People who confine themselves to the sense of the letter do not take 'fathers in those places to mean anybody other than Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and also the sons of Jacob. But in the internal sense 'fathers', in a good sense, is used to mean not them but those who belonged to the Most Ancient Church which existed before the Flood and those who belonged to the Ancient Church which existed after the Flood. Members of both were called 'fathers' because the Church came down from them and things of the Church were derived from them.

[2] 'Fathers' is used in Moses to mean those belonging to the Ancient Churches,

Your fathers Jehovah delighted to love, and He chose their seed after them. Deuteronomy 10:15.

And in the same author,

Remember the days of old, understand the Years of generation after generation. When the Most High gave to the nations an inheritance, when He separated the sons of man, He fixed the boundaries of the peoples, according to the number of the sons of Israel. But when Jeshurun became fat he forsook God. They sacrifice to demons, to gods [whom they do not know, to new ones] that have come from near by and that your fathers did not fear. ¹ Deuteronomy 32:7-8, 15, 17.

These words appear in the prophetical Song of Moses, in which verses 7-15 refer to the Ancient Church and Verses 15-44 to the descendants of Jacob. The state of the Most Ancient Church which existed before the Flood is meant by 'the days of old', and the state of the Ancient Church which existed after the Flood by 'the years of generation after generation'. Their state of good is meant by 'an inheritance which the Most High gave to the nations', and their state of truth by 'the Most High separated the sons of man, He fixed the boundaries of the peoples, according to the number of the sons of Israel', which 'number', being 'twelve', means all the truths of faith in their entirety, see 577, 2089, 2129 (end), 2130 (end), 3272, 3858, 3913. From this it is evident that 'fathers' means those who belonged to the ancient Churches. A similar meaning exists in the following places:

In Isaiah,

Our holy house, and our splendour, where our fathers praised You, has been made into a blaze of fire. Isaiah 64:11.

In Jeremiah,

Did not your father eat and drink, yet execute judgement and righteousness? Then all went well for him. Jeremiah 22:15.

In the same prophet,

They have sinned against Jehovah, the habitation of righteousness and the hope of their fathers. Jeremiah 50:7.

In David,

O God, we have heard with our ears, our fathers have told us the work You worked in their days, in the days of old. Psalms 44:1.

'Fathers' is used in the same way in Daniel 11:14, 37-38. The fact that those who belonged to the ancient Churches are meant in these places by 'fathers' is not apparent in the sense of the letter; it is seen only from the internal sense in which the Church, its forms of good, and its truths are the subject. Furthermore the Church itself - being the heavenly marriage, that is, the marriage of goodness and truth - is called 'father' in the Word in respect to goodness and 'mother' in respect to truth, 3707, 5581.

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