175. I will give him power over the nations, signifies over the evils within him, which will then be scattered by the Lord. This is evident from the signification of "nations," as being evils (of which presently); and from the signification of "giving power over them," as being that these (the evils) will then be dispersed by the Lord. "To have power," in reference to "over the nations," means to scatter in reference to evils; thus there is an adaptation of words to their subjects. It is said that evils will be scattered by the Lord, for the Lord scatters evils by means of truths. He first discovers them to man by means of truths, and when man acknowledges the evils, the Lord scatters them. (That the Lord alone does this, see The Doctrine of the New Jerusalem 200.) "Nations and peoples" are often mentioned in the Word, and those who know nothing of the spiritual or internal sense of the Word, believe that peoples and nations are to be understood. But "peoples" mean those who are in truths, or in the contrary sense those who are in falsities, and "nations" those who are in goods, or in the contrary sense, those who are in evils. And as such are meant by "peoples" and by "nations," so abstractly from persons "peoples" mean truths or falsities, and "nations" goods and evils; for the true spiritual sense is abstracted from persons, spaces, times, and like things, that are proper to nature.

[2] With these the natural sense of the Word, which is the sense of its letter, is at one; and the sense that is at one with these serves as a basis to the sense that is apart from them. For all things that are in nature are ultimates of Divine order, and the Divine does not rest in the middle, but flows down even to its ultimates, and there subsists. From this it is that the Word in the letter is such as it is, and unless it were such it would not serve as a basis for the wisdom of angels who are spiritual. It can be seen from this how mistaken those are who despise the Word on account of its style. "Nations" signify those who are in good, and in the abstract, goods, because men who lived in ancient times were divided into nations, families, and houses; and they then loved each other mutually; and the father of a nation loved the whole nation which was from him; thus the good of love reigned among them. For this reason "nations" signified goods. But when men came into the opposite state, which took place in the following ages when empires were established, then "nations" signified evils. (See further on this subject in the small work on The Earths in the Universe 49, 90, 173, 174.)

[3] That "nations" in the Word signify either goods or evils, and "people" either truths or falsities, can be seen from the following passages. In Isaiah:

Nations shall walk to Thy light, and kings to the brightness of Thy rising. Then shalt Thou see and flow together, and Thine heart shall be enlarged, because the multitude of the sea is converted unto Thee, the army of the nations come unto Thee; Thy gates shall be opened continually, they shall not be shut by day and by night, that men may bring unto Thee the army of the nations, and their kings shall be brought; for the nation or kingdom that will not serve Thee shall perish; and the nations by wasting shall be wasted. Thou shalt suck the milk of nations, even the breasts of kings shalt Thou suck. The little one shall become a thousand, and the few a numerous nation (Isaiah 60:3, 5, 11-12, 16, 22).

Here the Lord is treated of; and by "nations" all who are in the good of love to Him are meant, and by "kings" all who are in the truths of faith in Him. From this it is manifest who are meant by the "nations" that "shall walk to Thy light;" and by "the army of the nations that shall be brought;" also, who are meant by "the kings" that "shall walk to the brightness of Thy rising;" and by "the kings of the nations" that "shall be brought;" also, what is meant by "Thou shalt suck the milk of nations and the breasts of kings" ("milk" is the delight of the good of love, likewise "breasts," for milk is from them). The multiplication of truth and the fructification of good are described by the "little one shall become a thousand, and the few a numerous nation." But by "the nations that shall be wasted" are meant all that are in evils, and also the evils themselves.

[4] In the same:

Behold I will lift up My hand towards the nations, and set up Mine ensign towards the peoples, that they may bring thy sons in the bosom, and carry thy daughters upon the shoulder; and kings shall be thy nourishers and the chief women thy sucklers; with the face to the earth shall they bow down to thee (Isaiah 49:22, 23).

Here also the Lord is treated of, and those who shall worship and adore Him. To "lift up His hand towards the nations, and His ensign towards the peoples, " ¹ is to join to Himself all who are in the goods of love and in truths therefrom; of these it is said that "they shall bring thy sons in the bosom, and carry thy daughters upon the shoulder;" "sons" are the affections of truth, and "daughters" the affections of good (See above, n. 166). And of these it is said that their "kings shall be thy nourishers, and the chief women thy sucklers." "Kings" are truths themselves, "chief women" are the goods thereof; and as man is regenerated by both of these, and also nourished, it is said that they shall be "nourishers" and "sucklers." (That man is regenerated by means of truths and a life according to them, see in The Doctrine of the New Jerusalem 23, 24, 27, 186.) This is the internal sense of these words; without that sense who could understand them?

[5] In the same:

Jehovah said, Behold I spread out upon Jerusalem peace as a river, and as a torrent the glory of the nations, that ye may suck. He will come to gather all nations and tongues, that they may come and see My glory. They shall declare My glory among the nations; then shall they bring your brethren out of all nations, as a gift to Jehovah, upon horses and upon the chariot, to the mountain of My holiness (Isaiah 66:12, 18-20).

Here "Jerusalem" is the Lord's church in the heavens and on the earth; it is said the church in the heavens, for the church is there also (See in the work on Heaven and Hell 221-227). By "nations and tongues" all who are in the goods of love and in truths therefrom are meant. It is said that "they shall bring out of all nations a gift to Jehovah, upon horses and upon the chariot;" "a gift to Jehovah" is worship from the good of love; "horses and chariots" are intellectuals and doctrinals, for these are the source and foundation of worship. (That this is what "horses and chariots" signify, see The White Horse 1-5.)

[6] In the same:

It shall be in that day that a Root of Jesse, which shall stand for a sign of the people, the nations shall seek (Isaiah 11:10). "The root of Jesse" is the Lord; "to stand for a sign of the people" means that it may be seen by those who are in truths; "the nations which shall seek," are those who are in the good of love. It is believed that "nations" here mean the nations that are to approach and acknowledge the Lord, from which is to be the church that is called the church of the Gentiles; but these are not meant by "nation" but all who are in love to the Lord and faith in Him, whether within the church or out of it (See in the work on Heaven and Hell 308, 318-328).

[7] In the same:

A strong people shall honor Thee, the city of the powerful nations shall fear thee (Isaiah 25:3).

In the same:

Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation may enter in. Thou hast increased the nation, O Jehovah, Thou hast increased the nation, Thou art glorified (Isaiah 26:2, 15).

In the same:

Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye peoples (Isaiah 34:1).

In the same:

I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, for a covenant to the people, for a light of the nations (Isaiah 42:6).

In Jeremiah:

The nations shall bless themselves in Him, and in Him shall they glory (Jeremiah 4:2).

In the same:

Who will not fear Thee, O king of nations? and in all their kingdom there is none like unto Thee (Jeremiah 10:7).

In Daniel:

I was seeing in the night visions, and behold with the clouds of heaven One like the Son of man. And there was given Him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom; and all peoples, nations, and tongues shall worship Him (Daniel 7:13, 14).

In David:

The peoples shall give thanks unto Thee, O God; all the peoples shall give thanks unto Thee. Let the nations be glad and sing for joy; for Thou shalt judge the peoples with equity, and shalt lead the nations upon the earth (Psalms 67:3, 4).

In the same:

That I may see the good of Thy chosen, and be glad in the joy of Thy nations (Psalms 106:5).

In Revelation:

The glory and honor of the nations shall be brought into the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:26).

In Isaiah:

Ye shall be called priests of Jehovah; ministers of your ² God, it shall be said to you. Ye shall eat the wealth of the nations, and in their glory shall ye glory (Isaiah 61:6).

In the Lamentations:

The breath of our nostrils, the Anointed of Jehovah, was taken in their pits; of whom we had said, In His shadow we shall live among the nations (Lamentations 4:20).

In these passages, by "nations" all who are in love to the Lord, whether within the church where the Word is or outside it, are meant.

[8] That by "nations" in a contrary sense those who are in evils are meant, and in the abstract, evils themselves, can be seen from the following passages. In Jeremiah:

I will bring a nation upon you from far, it is a mighty nation; it is a nation of an age, a nation whose tongue thou shalt not know. It shall eat up thy harvest and thy bread; it shall eat up thy sons and thy daughters; it shall eat up thy vine and thy fig-tree; it shall impoverish the cities with the sword (Jeremiah 5:15, 17).

The vastation of the church is here treated of; and by "nation" is meant the evil that will consummate it; it is therefore said, that "it shall eat up the harvest and the bread," "the sons and daughters," "the vine and the fig-tree," and "shall impoverish the cities with the sword;" by which all the goods of love and the truths of faith are signified; by "harvest" a state of the reception of truth from good (See Arcana Coelestia 9295); by "bread" the good of love (See in The Doctrine of the New Jerusalem 218); by "sons and daughters" the affections of truth and good (See above, n. 166); by "vine" the internal church, thus the internal things of the church (See Arcana Coelestia 1069, 5113, 6376, 9277); by "fig-tree" the external church, thus the external things of the church (Arcana Coelestia 5113); by "cities" doctrines (Arcana Coelestia 402, 2449, 2712, 2943, 3216, 4492, 4493); by "sword" falsity destroying (See above, n. 73, 131). From this it can be seen that by "nations" is signified the evil that destroys all these.

[9] In the same:

Behold I lay stumbling-blocks before this people, that they may stumble upon them, the fathers and the sons together. Behold, a people cometh from the land of the north, and a great nation from the sides of the earth. They have no compassion, their voice roareth like the sea, and they ride upon horses (Jeremiah 6:21-23).

Here also "nation" means evil, and "peoples" falsities, "the stumbling-blocks upon which the fathers and the sons stumble" are the perversions of good and truth ("fathers" are goods, and "sons" truths therefrom). It is said, "a people from the land of the north, and a nation from the sides of the earth," for the "north" signifies falsity from evil, and "the sides of the earth" signify what is outside of the church, thus evils remote from the goods of the church. "To roar like the sea, and to ride upon horses," is to persuade by fallacies of the senses, and by reasonings therefrom.

[10] In Ezekiel:

The land is full of the judgment of bloods, and the city is full of violence, wherefore I will bring the worst of the nations, that they may occupy their houses; the king shall mourn, and the prince shall be clothed with stupor (Ezekiel 7:23-24, 27).

The "land" is the church; "full of the judgment of bloods" is to be in falsities that destroy goods; "city" is doctrine; "full of violence" is to use force against the good of charity; "the worst of the nations" are direful falsities from evil; "to occupy their houses" is to possess their minds; "the king who shall mourn" is the truth of the church; "the prince who shall be clothed with stupor," is subservient truth. (That the "land" is the church, see Arcana Coelestia 662, 1066, 1068, 1262, 1413, 1607, 2928, 3355, 4447, 4535, 5577, 8011, 9325, 9643; that "bloods" are falsities destroying good, n. 374, 1005, 4735, 5476, 9127; that "city" is doctrine, n. 2268, 2449, 2451, 2712, 2943, 3216, 4492, 4493; that "violence" is using force against the good of charity, n. 6353; that "houses" are the things of man that belong to his mind, n. 710, 2231, 2233, 2559, 3128, 3538, 4973, 5023, 6690, 7353, 7848, 7910, 7929, 9150; that "the king who shall mourn" is the truth of the church, see above n. 31.)

[11] In David:

Jehovah bringeth the counsel of the nations to naught, He overthroweth the thoughts of the peoples (Psalms 33:10).

"Nations" mean those who are in evils, and "peoples" those who are in falsities; and because both are signified, it is said that "Jehovah bringeth the counsel of the nations to naught, and overthroweth the thoughts of the peoples," which are two expressions, as it were, of one thing, yet they are distinct in the internal sense, in which "nations" signify one thing, and "peoples" another.

[12] In Luke:

Then they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive among all nations, and at length Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the nations, until the time of the nations be fulfilled. Then there shall be signs in sun, moon, and stars, and upon the earth anguish of nations, the sea and the waves roaring (Luke 21:24-25).

The consummation of the age is here treated of, which is the last time of the church, when there is no longer any faith because there is no charity, or no truth because there is no good. This is here described by correspondences: "to fall by the edge of the sword" is to be destroyed by falsities; "to be led captive among all nations" is to be possessed by evils of every kind; "Jerusalem, which shall be trodden down," is the church; the "sun" is love to the Lord; the "moon" faith in Him; the "stars" the knowledges of good and truth; the "signs" in them mean that these are to perish; "the sea and the waves that shall roar" are fallacies and reasonings therefrom.

[13] In Matthew:

Nation shall rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. And they shall deliver you unto affliction, and ye shall be hated of all the nations for My name's sake (Matthew 24:7, 9; Luke 21:10, 11).

These things also were said by the Lord respecting the last time of the church; and by "nation shall rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom" is signified that there will be conflicts of evils and falsities among themselves; by "famines and pestilences" are signified the failure and wasting of truths; by "earthquakes" the perversion of the church; by "being hated of all nations" is signified to be hated by all who are in evil; "the name of the Lord," for the sake of which they shall be hated, signifies all things of love and faith whereby the Lord is worshiped (See above, n. 102, 135).

[14] In Ezekiel:

Behold Asshur a cedar in Lebanon. He has become high, and his branches have been multiplied. In his branches have all the fowl of the heavens built their nests, and under his branches all the beasts of the field have brought forth, and in his shade have dwelt all great nations. But his heart is lifted up in his height; therefore I will give him into the hand of the strong one of the nations, strangers shall cut him off, the violent of the nations, and they shall cast him down; whence all peoples of the earth have gone down from his shadow, and have abandoned him (Ezekiel 31:3, 5, 6, 10-12).

These things no one can understand unless he has a knowledge of the spiritual or internal sense of the Word. He will believe them to be mere comparisons, in which there is no spiritual signification; when yet all the particulars therein signify things of heaven and the church; therefore they shall be explained briefly. "Asshur" is the rational of the man of the church which is illustrated; this is called "a cedar in Lebanon," because a "cedar" has the same signification as "Asshur," specifically truth from good in the rational; and "Lebanon" is the mind where the rational resides, because there were cedars in Lebanon.

By "his branches that were multiplied" are meant truths therefrom; "the fowl of the heavens that built their nests in his branches" are the affections of truth; and "the beasts of the field that brought forth under his branches" are the affections of good; the "great nations that dwelt in his shade" are the goods of love; "his heart lifted up in his height" is the love of self; "to be given into the hands of the strong one of the nations," and "to be cast down by the violent of the nations," means that evils from that love will destroy goods and truths; "the peoples of the earth that went down from his shadow and abandoned him" are all truths of the church. From this it is manifest that "nations" signify goods, and in the contrary sense evils; by "the nations that dwelt in his shade," goods; and by "the nations that cut him off, and cast him down," evils. (See, moreover, what is said and shown about nations and their signification in Arcana Coelestia, namely, that by "nations" in the Word are meant those who are in good, and consequently goods themselves, n. 1059, 1159, 1258, 1260, 1416, 1849, 6005; "the assembly of the nations," truths and goods, n. 4574, 7830; "the holy nation," the spiritual kingdom, n. 9255, 9256; when it is said "nation and people," by "nation" those who are in celestial good are meant, and by "people" those who are in spiritual good, n. 10288. That by "nations," especially the nations of the land of Canaan, evils and falsities of every kind are meant, n. 1059, 1205, 1868, 6306, 8054, 8317, 9320, 9327).

V:

388. The fourth experience.

I talked with some of those who are meant in Revelation by the dragon, and one of them said: 'Come with me, and I will show you what delights our eyes and hearts.'

So he took me through a dark wood and up a hill, from which I could watch the pleasures of the dragons. I saw an amphitheatre constructed in the shape of a ring surrounded by benches running up in tiers, on which the spectators were sitting. Those sitting on the lowest benches looked to be from a distance like satyrs and priapi ¹ ; some had clothing to conceal their private parts, and some without it were totally naked. On the benches above them sat fornicators and prostitutes, as it appeared to me by the gestures they made.

Then the dragon said to me: 'Now you will see our sport.' I saw let into the space in the ring what looked like calves, rams, ewes, kids and lambs; and when they were inside, a gate was opened and in rushed what looked like young lions, panthers, tigers and wolves. These furiously attacked the cattle, tore them in pieces and massacred them. After this bloody slaughter the satyrs sprinkled sand over the place where they had been killed.

[2] Then the dragon said to me: 'These are the sports which delight our minds.' 'Away with you, demon,' I replied, 'in a short while you will see this amphitheatre turned into a lake of fire and brimstone.' He laughed at this and went away. But afterwards I began to reflect why such things are permitted by the Lord. I received a reply in my heart, that they are permitted so long as people are in the world of spirits; but once their time in that world is up, such theatrical scenes are turned into the torments of hell.

[3] Everything which I saw had been the product of the dragon's imagination. So they were not really calves, rams, ewes, kids and lambs, but they made the genuine kinds of good and truth in the church, which they hated, appear in this form. The lions, panthers, tigers and wolves were the forms taken by the desires of the people who looked like satyrs and priapi. The ones with no clothing around their private parts were those who believed that evils were not manifest to God; those who had some clothing were those who believed that evils were manifest, but did not damn a person so long as he had faith. The fornicators and prostitutes were those who falsify the truths of the Word, for fornication means the falsification of truth. In the spiritual world everything at a distance looks like what it corresponds to, and when these take visible form they are called representations of spiritual things in the form of objects resembling those in the natural world.

[4] Later on I saw them emerging from the wood, the dragon in the midst of satyrs and priapi, with servants and camp-followers, who were the fornicators and prostitutes, coming after them. The column they formed grew as they went, and then I heard what they were discussing.

They were saying they had seen in a meadow a flock of sheep with lambs, and this was a sign that close by was one of the Jerusalem cities, where charity is the leading characteristic. 'Let us go,' they said, 'and capture that city, expel the inhabitants and plunder their property.' So they approached, but there was a wall around it, and angels on the wall to guard it. So then they said: 'Let us capture it by a trick. Let us send them someone skilled in sophistry, who can make black appear white and white black, and put a colourable gloss on anything.'

So they found someone who was an expert in metaphysics, able to turn real ideas into terminological ones, conceal the facts under forms of words, and so fly off like a hawk with its prey beneath its wings. He was told what to say to the people in the city, that they were co-religionists and should be let in. He went up to the gate and knocked, and when it was opened he said that he wished to speak with the wisest person in the city. He went in and was taken to someone, whom he addressed in these words: 'My brethren are outside the city, begging to be admitted. They are your co-religionists, for you and we both make faith and charity the two essentials of religion. The only difference is, that you put charity first and derive faith from it, and we put faith first and derive charity from it. What does it matter which is put first, when we believe in both?'

[5] The wise citizen replied: 'Let us not discuss this subject by ourselves, but in the presence of a larger audience who can act as umpires and judges. Otherwise we shall not reach a decision.' So more people were soon summoned, and they were addressed by the dragon's ambassador in similar words to those he had previously used.

Then the wise citizen made his reply: 'You have said that it is much the same whether charity or faith is regarded as the leading matter in the church, so long as there is agreement that either of them constitutes the church and its religion. Yet the difference is like that between prior and posterior, cause and effect, principal and instrumental, and essential and formal. I use these terms because I notice that you are an expert on metaphysics, a subject we call mere sophistry, and some people call magic formulas. But let us drop these terms. The difference is like that between what is above and what is beneath. Or rather, if you will believe me, it is the difference between the minds of those in this world who live on the upper level and the minds of those on the lower level. For the leading point constitutes the head and chest, and what is derived from it the feet and the soles of the feet. But first of all let us agree on the definition of charity and faith. Charity is the affection of the love of doing good to the neighbour for the sake of God, salvation and everlasting life; and faith is thinking from a trust in God, salvation and everlasting life.

[6] But the ambassador said: 'I agree that this is the definition of faith, and I also agree that charity is that affection for the sake of God, because it is for the sake of His commandment, but not for the sake of salvation and eternal life.' After this partial agreement and partial disagreement, the wise citizen said: 'Is not affection or liking the leading point, and thought derived from it?' The dragon's ambassador said: 'This I deny.'

But he was answered: 'You cannot deny it. Surely anyone thinks as the result of some liking. Take away the liking, and can he think at all? It is exactly as if you removed the sound from speech; if you took away the sound, could you say anything? Sound too is the product of the affection of some love or other, and speech is the product of thought, for love makes a sound and thought puts it into words. It is also like a flame and light; if you take away the flame, is not the light extinguished? It is much the same with charity, because this is the product of love, and with faith, because this is the product of thought. Can you not thus grasp that the leading point is all-important for the secondary, exactly as the flame is for the light? It is obvious from this that if you do not put the leading point first, you cannot have the second either. Therefore, if you put faith, which is in the second place, in first place, you cannot fail to appear in heaven as upside down, with your feet uppermost and your head down, or like a clown who walks upside down on the palms of his hands. When you look like this in heaven, what then will your good deeds look like, which are charity in action? They can only be the sort of things the clown does with his feet, since he cannot do them with his hands. That is why your charity is natural rather than spiritual, since it is upside down.'

[7] The ambassador understood this, since every devil can understand truth when he hears it; but he is unable to keep it in his memory, because the affection for evil, which is essentially the longing of the flesh, on its return expels thought of the truth. Afterwards the wise citizen showed at some length what is the nature of faith when it is taken as the leading point, namely, that it is purely natural, a conviction devoid of any spiritual life, and in consequence no faith at all. 'And I can almost say that there is no more spirituality in your faith, than there is in thinking about the Mogul empire, the diamond mine in it, and the treasury or court of that emperor.' On hearing this the dragon's man went off in anger and reported to his companions outside the city. When they heard it had been said that charity is the affection of the love of doing good to the neighbour for the sake of [God,] ² salvation and everlasting life, they all shouted: 'This is a lie!', and the dragon himself cried: 'Ah, what a crime! Surely all charitable deeds if they are done for the sake of salvation, are merit-seeking?'

[8] Then they said to one another: 'Let us summon still more of our people, and lay siege to this city, and let us expel these paragons of charity.' But when they attempted this, a sudden flash of fire from heaven consumed them. But the fire from heaven was a manifestation of their anger and hatred directed against the people in the city, since they had cast down faith from first to second place, or rather to the lowest place beneath charity, since they claimed that it was no faith. The reason they appeared to be consumed by fire was that hell opened up beneath their feet, and they were swallowed up. Similar events to this occurred in many places on the day of the Last Judgment; this too is the meaning of the following passage in Revelation:

The dragon will come forth to lead astray the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, to assemble them for war; and they went up on the surface of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints, and the beloved city. But fire came down from God out of heaven and consumed them, Revelation 20:8-9.

V: