2831. 'Behind [him] caught in a thicket' means entangled in natural knowledge. This is clear from the meaning here of 'caught in' as being entangled in, and from the meaning of 'a thicket' or fan entanglement' as factual knowledge, to be dealt with in what follows. Those who are spiritual are caught and entangled in natural knowledge as regards truths of faith for the following reasons: Those who are spiritual do not possess the perception of good and truth as those who are celestial do. Instead of perception they have conscience, which is formed from the goods and truths of faith which from early childhood they have taken in from parents and teachers, and after that from the doctrine of the faith into which they were born. The only way that those who do not possess the perception of good and truth can receive confirmation is from facts. Everyone forms some concept for himself regarding the things he has learned, and also regarding the goods and truths of faith. Without that nothing remains in the memory except as an empty vessel. Details that serve to confirm - derived from other cognitions, and even from factual knowledge - are added to and fill in the concept. The concept itself confirmed by many details not only causes itself to be fixed in the memory, from which it may be called forth into thought, but also enables faith to be instilled into it.

[2] As regards perception in general, since few know what perception is, this must be stated here. There is the perception of what is good and true in things that are celestial and spiritual; there is the perception of what is just and fair in public life; and there is the perception of what is honourable in private life. As regards the perception of what is good and true in celestial and spiritual things, this is the perception which the more interior angels possess from the Lord. It was also the perception which members of the Most Ancient Church possessed, and it is the perception which celestial people possess, who are moved by love to the Lord. These people know in an instant from a certain inner awareness whether a thing is good and whether it is true, for the Lord instills it into them because they are joined by love to Him. But spiritual people do not possess such perception of what is good and true in celestial and spiritual things. Instead of perception they have conscience which dictates. Conscience however, as has been stated, is formed from cognitions of good and truth which they have taken in from parents and teachers and later on from their own devotion to doctrine and the Word. And on these cognitions they pin their faith, even though these may not be goods and truths to any great extent. This being so, people can have a conscience that is derived from any variety of doctrine; even gentiles possess something not unlike conscience, derived from their own form of religion.

[3] The fact that those who are spiritual have no perception of the good and truth of faith but say and believe to be true that which they have learned and grasped becomes quite clear from the consideration that everyone calls his own tenets the truth - heretics more than others - and from the consideration that they are unable to see, let alone acknowledge, the truth itself, even though thousands of things might declare it. Let everyone search within himself to see whether he is able to perceive from any other source whether a thing is true, and whether when that which is absolutely true is made plain to him he still does not acknowledge it. Take for example someone who makes faith and not love the essential of salvation. Even if all the things were read out to him which the Lord spoke regarding love and charity, see 2371, and even if he knew from the Word that all the Law and all the Prophets hung on love to the Lord and charity towards the neighbour, he would still persist in the idea of faith and would say that this alone was what saved. It is altogether different in the case of those who possess celestial and spiritual perception.

[4] But as regards the perception of what is just and fair in public life, those in the world who are rational possess this, together with the perception of what is honourable in private life. So far as these two types of perception are concerned, one person differs from the next; but this in no sense implies that such persons possess the perception of the good and truth of faith, since this kind of perception is higher or more interior and flows in from the Lord by way of the inmost part of the rational.

[5] A further reason why spiritual people do not possess a perception of the good and truth of faith is that good and truth are not implanted in the will part of their minds, as in the case of celestial people, but in the understanding part; see 863, 875, 927, 1023, 1043, 1044, 2256. This is why spiritual people are not able to enter the first region of the light that celestial people dwell in, 2718, but in comparison with them are in obscurity, 1043, 2708, 2715. The fact that those who are spiritual are entangled in natural knowledge as regards truths of faith follows from this.

[6] As regards 'a thicket' or 'an entanglement' in the internal sense meaning natural knowledge, that is, factual knowledge such as becomes fixed in the exterior memory, this may also be seen from other places in the Word: in Ezekiel,

Behold, Asshur was a cedar in Lebanon, beautiful in its boughs, and a forest shade, and lofty in height, and its trunk among entangled boughs. Ezekiel 31:3.

This refers to 'Egypt', which is knowledge, 1164, 1165, 1186, 1462. 'Asshur' stands for the rational, 119, 1186, which in the Word is also 'a cedar', and 'Lebanon' as well. 'Among entangled boughs' stands for among facts, for the human rational is based on the facts known to it which it commands.

[7] In the same prophet,

Thus said the Lord Jehovih, Because you are exalted in height, and he has set his trunk up among entangled boughs, and his heart has become lifted up in his height, foreigners, the violent of the nations, will cut him down and cast him out. Ezekiel 31:10, 12.

This refers to Egypt. 'Setting his trunk among entangled boughs' stands for sticking to facts and looking at spiritual, celestial, and Divine things, from them as the standpoint. In the same prophet,

This is in order that none of all the trees by the waters may exalt themselves in their height, and set their trunk up among entangled boughs, and that none of all that drink water may reach above them in their height, for they will all be given over to death, to the lower earth in the midst of the sons of men, to those going down to the pit. Ezekiel 31:14.

This refers to those who wish by means of reasonings based on factual knowledge to penetrate the mysteries of faith; these become totally blind, see 215, 232, 233, 1072, 1911, 2196, 2203, 2568, 2588. Reasoning based on facts is the meaning of 'setting their trunk up among entangled boughs'. In the same prophet,

It had strong shoots as sceptres for those who have dominion, and its height rose up above among entangled boughs. Ezekiel 19:11.

Here the meaning is similar.

[8] In the same prophet,

The slain of Israel in the midst of their idols, around their altars, and under every green tree, and under every entangled oak. Ezekiel 6:13.

This refers to the kind of worship which people invent for themselves who have faith in themselves, and so in those things which they hatch out from their factual knowledge. 'An entangled oak' stands for facts as they exist in that particular state, 'oaks' meaning perceptions arising out of facts, see 1442, 1443, 2144. The same feature occurs elsewhere in the same prophet,

They looked at every high hill and every entangled tree, and there they offered their sacrifices. Ezekiel 20:28.

'Entangled tree' stands for things which are not dictated by the Word but by a person's own factual knowledge. The fact that worship used to take place in groves and depended for its meaning on the nature of the trees, see 2722.

[9] In Isaiah,

For wickedness will burn like a fire, it will consume brier and thorn, and will kindle the entangled boughs of the wood. Isaiah 9:18.

'Brier and thorn' stands for falsity and evil desire, 'the entangled boughs of the wood' for facts. In the same prophet,

Jehovah Zebaoth will hew down the entangled boughs of the wood with an axe, and Lebanon will fall by a majestic one. Isaiah 10:34.

'The entangled boughs of the wood' stands for facts, 'Lebanon' for rational concepts. In Jeremiah,

Raise a standard towards Zion, for I am bringing evil from the north, and a great destruction. A lion has risen up from his thicket, and a destroyer of nations has set out and come from his place to make your land a waste. Your cities will be destroyed, and left without inhabitants. Jeremiah 4:6-7.

'From his thicket' stands for from factual knowledge, and that which 'rises up' from this and enters into Divine arcana 'makes the land a waste', that is, lays waste the Church.

[10] The reason why in the Word facts are called 'thickets' is that facts are by nature like thickets, especially when the desires of self-love and love of the world, and false assumptions, exert an influence on them. Celestial and spiritual love is a love which arranges into order the facts that belong to the external memory, whereas self-love and love of the world disrupt that order and bring confusion to everything there. These are matters of which man is not aware because he takes that to be order which in fact is perverted order, that to be good which in fact is evil, and that to be truth which in fact is falsity; therefore those things are 'in a thicket'. He is also unaware of these matters because the things that belong to the external memory where facts reside are - in comparison with those that belong to the internal memory, where rational concepts reside - in a thicket, or in some gloomy woodland. How shadowy, gloomy, and darkened it is there in comparison, nobody can know as long as he lives in the body, for during that time he imagines that all wisdom and intelligence arise from facts; but he will know it in the next life when he has entered the things that belong to the internal memory. In the external memory which is proper to man during his life in the world nothing is more lacking than the light of wisdom and intelligence. But that everything there is by comparison dark, disordered, and entangled, see 2469-2494.

2468. There is no need to confirm these meanings either, for the explanation itself, and what comes before and after, shows that such things are meant. The form and nature of the religion meant by 'Moab and the children of Ammon' however becomes clear from the description that has been given of their origin, and also from many other places in the Word, the historical as well as the prophetical, where they are mentioned. In general they are people whose worship is external and to some extent appears holy, but is not internal. They are also people who take up the things which belong to external worship as goods and truths but reject and regard as worthless those that belong to internal worship.

[2] This type of worship and religion falls to people with whom natural good exists but who regard other people as worthless in comparison with themselves. They are not unlike fruit which is not unattractive on the outside but which within is mouldy or rotten; they are not unlike marble vases whose contents are impure and sometimes foul; or they are not unlike women whose face, figure, and movements are not unbecoming but who inwardly are diseased and full of foul impurities. For with them a general good exists which does not look unattractive; but things of a particular kind which enter into that good are filthy. This is not so to begin with but becomes so gradually, for such people easily allow themselves to be impregnated with whatever go by the name of goods and consequently by whatever falsities which, because they are confirmatory, they imagine to be truths. This happens because they despise the interior things of worship, which things they despise because they are governed by self-love. Such people come from and originate with those whose worship is purely external and who in this chapter are represented by Lot. They do so when the good contained in truth has been desolated. In the Word the nature of such people is described both in the beginning when their good has not as yet been so defiled, and also subsequently when it is being defiled, as well as after that when it has been defiled completely; and their rejection of the interior things of worship and doctrine is described too.

[3] The nature of those people in the beginning when their good has not as yet been so defiled is described in Daniel,

At the time of the end the king of the south will clash with him; therefore the king of the north will rush upon him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he will enter into countries, and will overflow, and will pass through, and will come into the glorious land, and many countries will collapse; these will be delivered out of his hand, Edom and Moab, and the firstfruits of the children of Ammon. Daniel 11:40-41.

'The king of the south' stands for people with whom goods and truths are present, 'the king of the north' for those with whom evils and falsities are present. 'The king of the north with chariots, horsemen, and ships, entering countries, overflowing, and passing through' stands for evils and falsities, meant by 'chariots, horsemen, and ships', getting the upper hand; 'the deliverance from his hand of Edom, Moab, and the firstfruits of the children of Ammon' stands for people governed by good which has not yet been defiled so much by falsities. This is why they are called 'the firstfruits of the children of Ammon'.

[4] In Moses,

We passed on by the road of the wilderness, and Jehovah said to Moses, Do not harass Moab, nor engage with them in battle, for I will not give you any of their land as an inheritance because I have given Ar to the children of Lot as an inheritance. Deuteronomy 2:8-9.

And regarding the children of Ammon,

Jehovah spoke to Moses, Today you are passing over Ar the boundary of Moab, and when you approach from the region of the children of Ammon, do not harass them nor engage with them, for I will not give you any of the land of the children of Ammon as an inheritance, for I have given it to the children of Lot as an inheritance. Deuteronomy 2:17-19.

Here 'Ar' stands for that kind of good, 'Moab and the children of Ammon' for people who are governed by such good, but at the beginning, which explains why it is commanded that they should not be harassed.

[5] This also is the reason why Moab drove out the Emim, and the Rephaim who were similar to the Anakim, and why the children of Ammon too drove out the Rephaim, whom they called the Zamzummim, Deuteronomy 2:9-11, 18-21. 'Emim, Rephaim, Anakim, and Zamzummim' means people who were impregnated with evil and false persuasions, see 581, 1673. 'Moab and the children of Ammon' in the present context means people who have not yet been impregnated. But when these too had been so impregnated, that is, when their good had been defiled by falsities, they also were driven out, Numbers 21:21-31; Ezekiel 25:8-11.

[6] The nature of those people when their good is being defiled is described in Jeremiah,

To Moab Jehovah spoke thus, Woe to Nebo! for it is laid waste; Kiriathaim is put to shame, it is taken; Misgab is put to shame and overwhelmed; the praise of Moab is no more. Give wings to Moab, for it will fly away and its cities will become a desolation, with no one to dwell in them. Leave the cities and dwell in the rock, O inhabitants of Moab, and be like the dove that nests in the sides of the mouth of the hole. I know its anger, says Jehovah, and it is not steadfast, and its falsities do not make for right. Therefore I will howl over Moab and will cry out to the whole of Moab. From the weeping of Jazer I will weep for you, O vine of Sibmah. Your branches passed over the sea, they reached as far as the sea of Jazer; on your summer fruits and on your vintage the vastator has fallen. Therefore My heart is moved over Moab like pipes. Woe to you, O Moab! The people of Chemosh have perished, for your sons have been taken away into captivity, and your daughters into captivity. And I will bring back the captivity of Moab in the latter days. Jeremiah 48:1-2, 9, 28, 30-32, 36, 46-47.

[7] The whole chapter refers to Moab, but by means of him to the way in which people with whom such good is present allow themselves to be impregnated with falsities. This is why it is said that 'they should give Moab wings so that he may fly away', and that 'his cities will become a desolation', but that 'they were to leave the cities and dwell in the rock, and like a dove were to nest in the sides of the mouth of the hole', and many other things by which they are persuaded to remain with the general goods and truths they possess. And if at such times they were led astray by falsities due to lack of knowledge they would be brought back from captivity in the latter days. But with those people with whom this does not happen it is said, 'I will howl over Moab and will cry out to the whole of Moab', and 'My heart is moved over Moab'. The falsities with which they are impregnated are meant by Nebo, Kiriathaim, Misgab, Sibmah, Jazer, Chemosh, and other names mentioned in that chapter.

[8] In Isaiah,

Like a scattered nest will the daughters of Moab be. Give counsel, execute judgement. Make your whole shade [as the night] in the middle of the day. Hide the outcasts, do not betray the wanderer; let My outcasts, O Moab, dwell together in you; be a refuge to them in the presence of the vastator. We have heard of the pride of Moab - his great pride, his arrogance, and his insolence, and his anger; not so his lies. Therefore Moab will howl for Moab, everyone will howl. Therefore My bowels are played on like a harp for Moab, and My inward parts for the city of Heres. And when Moab is seen exhausted on the high place and he comes to his sanctuary to pray he will not prevail. In three years, like the years of a hireling, the praise of Moab will be brought into contempt, with all his great multitude, and the survivors will be a very small and feeble number. Isaiah 16:2-4, 6-7, 11-12, 14.

The whole of this chapter as well refers to Moab, and by means of him to people with whom such good is present. They are described in various parts of the chapter in words similar to those used in Jeremiah 48 - people that are in like manner persuaded to remain with the general goods and truths they possess and not allow themselves to be impregnated with falsities. General goods and truths are meant by the demand that they should give counsel, execute judgement, hide the outcasts, not betray the wanderer, be a refuge to outcasts in the presence of the vastator, all of which mean the external features of worship. Yet because they allow themselves to be impregnated with falsities, it is said 'in three years, like the years of a hireling, and the praise of Moab will be brought into contempt, with all his great multitude, and the survivors will be a very small and feeble number'.

[9] Because they are led astray easily, Moab is called 'the sending forth of the hand of the Philistines, and the children of Ammon their obedience' in Isaiah,

The root of Jesse; which is standing as an ensign of the peoples, that will the nations seek, and His rest will be glory. The envy of Ephraim will depart, and the enemies of Judah will be cut off. Ephraim will not envy Judah, and Judah will not harass Ephraim. And they will fly down onto the shoulder of the Philistines towards the sea, together they will plunder the people of the east, Edom, Moab the sending forth of their hand, and the children of Ammon their obedience. Isaiah 11:10, 13-14.

'The root of Jesse' stands for the Lord, 'Judah' for those who are governed by celestial good, 'Ephraim' for those who are governed by spiritual truth, 'the Philistines' for those who possess a knowledge of the cognitions of truth but who have no charity, 'the people of the east' for those who possess a knowledge of the cognitions of what is good but who also have no charity. Moab is called 'the sending forth of their hand', the children of Ammon 'their obedience', because they are impregnated with falsities by them.

[10] The nature however of people called Moab and the children of Ammon and what it becomes when their good has been defiled completely by falsities is described in David,

God has spoken in His holiness, Gilead is Mine, and Manasseh is Mine; and

Ephraim is the strength of My head, Judah is My lawgiver, Moab is My wash-basin. Psalms 60:6-8; and likewise. Psalms 108:7-9.

'Washbasin' stands for good defiled by falsities.

[11] In Jeremiah,

The praise of Moab is no more. In Heshbon they have thought evil against him: Come, let us cut him off from being a nation. Moab has been at ease from his youth, resting on his lees; he has not been emptied from vessel into vessel, nor has he gone away into exile. Therefore his taste remains in him, and his scent is unchanged. On all the roofs of Moab and in its streets it is all lamentation, for I have broken Moab like a vessel in which no pleasure is taken. Jeremiah 48:2, 11, 38.

The falsities that defile good, which is 'Moab', are here called 'lees'. These are what 'the taste and scent' consists in if no reformation takes place, meant here by being 'emptied from vessel into vessel'. Good itself is called 'a vessel in which no pleasure is taken', as in David where it is called 'a basin for washing in'. In Isaiah,

The hand of Jehovah will rest on this mountain, and Moab will be threshed beneath it, as straw is trodden down in a dung-pit. Isaiah 25:10.

[12] People with whom such good exists are interested solely in the external features of worship and doctrine, and despise, reject, indeed are utterly averse to the internal; and as a consequence they have falsities instead of truths: in Ezekiel,

Son of man, set your face towards the children of Ammon, and prophesy against them, and say to the children of Ammon, Hear the word of the Lord Jehovih: Thus said the Lord Jehovih, Because you say, Aha! against My sanctuary that has been profaned, and against the land of Israel because it has been made desolate, and against the house of Judah because they have gone away into captivity, I will make Rabbah into a dwelling-place for camels, and the children of Ammon into a couching-place for flocks. The Lord Jehovih said, Because you have clapped the hand and stamped with the foot and rejoiced with all the contempt in your soul against the land of Israel, therefore, behold, I will stretch out My hand against you and hand you over as spoil to the nations, and I will cut you off from the peoples and will make you perish out of the countries. Ezekiel 25:2-7.

'Aha! against the sanctuary that has been profaned, against the land of Israel because it has been made desolate, against the house of Judah because they have gone away into captivity', 'you clapped the hand, stamped with the foot, and rejoiced with all the contempt in your soul against the land of Israel' are words expressing contempt for, mockery, and rejection of the interior features of worship and doctrine. When these have been rejected external things cease to have any value and 'are handed over as spoil to the nations', that is, they are invested by evils, and 'cut off from the peoples', that is, invested by falsities, and 'are made to perish out of the countries', that is, become part of what is not the Church.

[13] In Zephaniah,

I have heard the taunt of Moab and the blasphemies of the children of Ammon, who have taunted My people and magnified themselves against their border. Therefore as I live, Moab will become like Sodom, and the children of Ammon like Gomorrah, a place abandoned to the nettle and a saltpit, and they will be a desolation for ever. This will be theirs for their arrogance because they taunted and magnified themselves against the people of Jehovah Zebaoth. Zephaniah 2:8-10.

'Taunting the people, and magnifying themselves against their border, and against the people of Jehovah Zebaoth' is scorning and rejecting interior truths, meant by 'the people of Jehovah Zebaoth'. Goods as a consequence become evils derived from falsity, which are 'Sodom' and 'a place abandoned to the nettle', while truths become falsities, which are 'Gomorrah' and 'a saltpit'. For it is from internal things that external are enabled to be good and true.

[14] In David,

[Your] enemies craftily take secret counsel against Your people, they consult together against Your hidden ones, [saying,] Come, let us cut them off from being a nation, and let not the name of Israel be remembered any more, for they consult together with one accord; against You they make a covenant the tents of Edom, and the Ishmaelites, Moab and the Hagrites, Gebal and Ammon, and Amalek, Philistia with the inhabitants of Tyre: Asshur also is joined with them; they are an arm to the children of Lot. Psalms 83:2-8.

'Consulting against the hidden ones', 'cutting them off from being a nation so that the name of Israel is remembered no more' means being totally averse to interior things. 'The tents of Edom, the Ishmaelites, Moab, the Hagrites, Gebal, and Ammon' means people whose worship and doctrine are external, 'Philistia with Tyre' people who talk about internal things but do not have them, 'Asshur who is an arm to the children of Lot' reasoning with which they fight on behalf of external things and attack internal.

[15] In Moses,

A man shall not take his father's wife nor violate his father's skirt. He who has been severely bruised or crushed in the testicles shall not enter the assembly of Jehovah. The Ammonite and the Moabite shall not enter the assembly of Jehovah; even to the tenth generation they shall not ever enter the assembly of Jehovah. Deuteronomy 22:30-23:7.

This shows what Moab and Ammon were at the end, that is, when they were impregnated completely with falsities. That is to say, they were people with whom good was adulterated and truth falsified through their contempt for, rejection of, and at length total aversion to all interior things. This also is why these two names are mentioned in this quotation after reference has been made to the foul kinds of adultery meant by 'taking one's father's wife' and 'violating one's father's skirt - almost as with the mention made here to Lot's daughters from whom Moab and Ammon were born; and also after reference to those who are 'severely bruised or crushed in the testicles', by whom those who are totally averse to everything that has to do with love and charity are meant. 'The assembly of Jehovah' means heaven, which they are unable to enter because they possess no remnants, which are obtained solely from interior goods and interior truths and which are meant by 'the tenth generation', 576, 1738, 2280.

[16] They also belonged to those nations who used to sacrifice sons and daughters to Molech, by which in the internal sense is meant that they annihilated truths and goods. Actually Moab's god was Chemosh, and the children of Ammon's was Molech or Milcom, 1 Kings 11:7, 33; 2 Kings 23:13, to whom they sacrificed, 2 Kings 3:27. As regards 'sons and daughters' meaning truths and goods, see 489-491, 533, 1147.

[17] Such then is the meaning of Moab and Ammon; but the kinds of falsity by which they adulterate goods and annihilate truths are many. These are listed in Jeremiah, but merely by their names -

Judgement has come to the land of the plain, to Holon, and to Jahzah, and to Mephaath, and on Dibon, and on Nebo, and on Bethdiblathaim, and on Kiriathaim, and on Bethgamul, and on Bethmeon, and on Kirioth, and on Bozrah, and on all the cities of the land of Moab, far and near. The horn of Moab has been cut off and his arm broken. Make him drunk, because he magnified himself over Jehovah, and let Moab applaud in his vomit. Jeremiah 48:21-26.

These are the kinds of falsity which come together in those who are called Moab and Ammon. Which particular falsities however, and the nature of them, becomes clear from the meaning of each name in the internal sense; for names in the Word mean nothing other than real things, as has been shown many times.