5228. Saying. That this signifies perception therefrom, is evident from the signification of “saying,” as being to perceive (see n. 1791, 1815, 1819, 1822, 1898, 1919, 2080, 2619, 2862, 3395, 3509). What perception “therefrom” is, or perception from thought, cannot be unfolded so as to be understood, because at this day it is wholly unknown what spiritual perception is; and what is unknown does not enter into the apprehension, however it may be described; for perception is nothing else than the speech or thought of the angels who are with man. When this speech or thought flows in, it becomes the perception that a thing is so, or is not so, but only with those who are in the good of love and of charity, for it flows in through good. With these this perception produces thoughts, for to them what is perceptive is the general of thought. Yet perception from thought is not actually given, but only apparently. But no more can be said regarding this mystery, because, as already said, it is unknown at this day what perception is.

1822. He said unto him. That this signifies perception, is evident from what was said above at verses 2 and 7. Perception itself is nothing else than a kind of internal speech, which internal speech manifests itself by being perceived. All interior dictate, and even conscience, is nothing else; but perception is a higher or more interior degree of it.