9372. And He said unto Moses. That this signifies that which concerns the Word in general, is evident from the representation of Moses, as being the Word (of which below); and from the signification of “He said,” as involving those things which follow in this chapter, thus those which concern the Word (see n. 9370). (That Moses represents the Word, can be seen from what has been often shown before about Moses, as from the preface to Genesis 18; and n. 4859, 5922, 6723, 6752, 6771, 6827, 7010, 7014, 7089, 7382, 8601, 8760, 8787, 8805.) Here Moses represents the Word in general, because it is said of him in what follows, that he alone should come near unto Jehovah (verse 2); and also that, being called unto out of the midst of the cloud, he entered into it, and went up the mount (verses 16-18).

[2] In the Word there are many who represent the Lord in respect to truth Divine, or in respect to the Word; but chief among them are Moses, Elijah, Elisha, and John the Baptist. That Moses does so, can be seen in the explications just cited above; that so do Elijah and Elisha, can be seen in the preface to Genesis 18; and n. 2762, 5247; and that John the Baptist does so is evident from the fact that he was “Elias who was to come.” He who does not know that John the Baptist represented the Lord as to the Word, cannot know what all those things infold and signify which are said about him in the New Testament; and therefore in order that this secret may stand open, and that at the same time it may appear that Elias, and also Moses, who were seen when the Lord was transfigured, signified the Word, some things may here be quoted which are spoken about John the Baptist; as in Matthew:

After the messengers of John had departed, Jesus began to speak concerning John, saying, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? a reed shaken by the wind? But what went ye out to see? a man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they that wear soft things are in kings’ houses. But what went ye out to see? a prophet? Yea, I say unto you, even more than a prophet. This is he of whom it is written, Behold I send Mine angel before Thy face, who shall prepare Thy way before Thee. Verily I say unto you, Among those who are born of women there hath not arisen a greater than John the Baptist; nevertheless he that is less in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he. All the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye are willing to believe, he is Elias who was to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear (Matthew 11:7-15; and also Luke 7:24-28).

No one can know how these things are to be understood, unless he knows that this John represented the Lord as to the Word, and unless he also knows from the internal sense what is signified by “the wilderness” in which he was, also what by “a reed shaken by the wind,” and likewise by “soft raiment in kings’ houses;” and further what is signified by his being “more than a prophet,” and by “none among those who are born of women being greater than he, and nevertheless he that is less in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he,” and lastly by his being “Elias.” For without a deeper sense, all these words are uttered merely from some comparison, and not from anything of weight.

[3] But it is very different when by John is understood the Lord as to the Word, or the Word representatively. Then by “the wilderness of Judea in which John was” is signified the state in which the Word was at the time when the Lord came into the world, namely, that it was “in the wilderness,” that is, it was in obscurity so great that the Lord was not at all acknowledged, neither was anything known about His heavenly kingdom; when yet all the prophets prophesied about Him, and about His kingdom, that it was to endure forever. (That “a wilderness” denotes such obscurity, see n. 2708, 4736, 7313.) For this reason the Word is compared to “a reed shaken by the wind” when it is explained at pleasure; for in the internal sense “a reed” denotes truth in the ultimate, such as is the Word in the letter.

[4] That the Word in the ultimate, or in the letter, is crude and obscure in the sight of men; but that in the internal sense it is soft and shining, is signified by their “not seeing a man clothed in soft raiment, for behold those who wear soft things are in kings’ houses.” That such things are signified by these words, is plain from the signification of “raiment,” or “garments,” as being truths (n. 2132, 2576, 4545, 4763, 5248, 6914, 6918, 9093); and for this reason the angels appear clothed in garments soft and shining according to the truths from good with them (n. 5248, 5319, 5954, 9212, 9216). The same is evident from the signification of “kings’ houses,” as being the abodes of the angels, and in the universal sense, the heavens; for “houses” are so called from good (n. 2233, 2234, 3128, 3652, 3720, 4622, 4982, 7836, 7891, 7996, 7997); and “kings,” from truth (n. 1672, 2015, 2069, 3009, 4575, 4581, 4966, 5044, 6148). Therefore by virtue of their reception of truth from the Lord, the angels are called “sons of the kingdom,” “sons of the king,” and also “kings.”

[5] That the Word is more than any doctrine in the world, and more than any truth in the world, is signified by “what went ye out to see? a prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet;” and by, “there hath not arisen among those who are born of women a greater than John the Baptist;” for in the internal sense “a prophet” denotes doctrine (n. 2534, 7269); and “those who are born,” or are the sons, “of women” denote truths (n. 489, 491, 533, 1147, 2623, 2803, 2813, 3704, 4257).

[6] That in the internal sense, or such as it is in heaven, the Word is in a degree above the Word in the external sense, or such as it is in the world, and such as John the Baptist taught, is signified by, “he that is less in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he;” for as perceived in heaven the Word is of wisdom so great that it transcends all human apprehension. That the prophecies about the Lord and His coming, and that the representatives of the Lord and of His kingdom, ceased when the Lord came into the world, is signified by, “all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.” That the Word was represented by John, as by Elijah, is signified by his being “Elias who is to come.”

[7] The same is signified by these words in Matthew:

The disciples asked Jesus, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come? He answered and said, Elias must needs first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, that Elias hath come already, and they knew him not, but did unto him whatsoever they wished. Even so shall the Son of man also suffer of them. And they understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist (Matthew 17:10-13).

That “Elias hath come, and they knew him not, but did unto him whatsoever they wished” signifies that the Word has indeed taught them that the Lord is to come, but that still they did not wish to comprehend, interpreting it in favor of the rule of self, and thus extinguishing what is Divine in it. That they would do the same with the truth Divine itself, is signified by “even so shall the Son of man also suffer of them.” (That “the Son of man” denotes the Lord as to truth Divine, see n. 2803, 2813, 3704)

[8] From all this it is now evident what is meant by the prophecy about John in Malachi:

Behold I send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of Jehovah cometh (Malachi 4:5).

Moreover, the Word in the ultimate, or such as it is in the external form in which it appears before man in the world, is described by the “clothing” and “food” of John the Baptist, in Matthew:

John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, had His clothing of camel’s hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his food was locusts and wild honey (Matthew 3:1, 4).

In like manner it is described by Elijah in the second book of Kings:

He was a hairy man, and girt with a girdle of leather about his loins (2 Kings 1:8).

By “clothing,” or a “garment,” when said of the Word, is signified truth Divine there in the ultimate form; by “camel’s hair” are signified memory-truths such as appear there before a man in the world; by the “leathern girdle” is signified the external bond connecting and keeping in order all the interior things; by “food” is signified spiritual nourishment from the knowledges of truth and of good out of the Word; by “locusts” are signified ultimate or most general truths; and by “wild honey” their pleasantness.

[9] That such things are signified by “clothing” and “food” has its origin in the representatives of the other life, where all appear clothed according to truths from good, and where food also is represented according to the desires of acquiring knowledge and growing wise. From this it is that “clothing,” or a “garment,” denotes truth (as may be seen from the citations above; and that “food” or “meat” denotes spiritual nourishment, n. 3114, 4459, 4792, 5147, 5293, 5340, 5342, 5576, 5579, 5915, 8562, 9003; that “a girdle” denotes a bond which gathers up and holds together interior things, n. 9341; that “leather” denotes what is external, n. 3540; and thus “a leathern girdle” denotes an external bond; that “hairs” denote ultimate or most general truths, n. 3301, 5569-5573; that “a camel” denotes memory-knowledge in general, n. 3048, 3071, 3143, 3145, 4156; that “a locust” denotes nourishing truth in the extremes, n. 7643; and that “honey” denotes the pleasantness thereof, n. 5620, 6857, 8056). It is called “wild honey,” or “honey of the field,” because by “a field” is signified the church (n. 2971, 3317, 3766, 7502, 7571, 9139, 9295). He who does not know that such things are signified, cannot possibly know why Elijah and John were so clothed. And yet that these things signified something peculiar to these prophets, can be thought by everyone who thinks well about the Word.

[10] Because John the Baptist represented the Lord as to the Word, therefore also when he spoke of the Lord, who was the Word itself, he said of himself that he was “not Elias, nor the prophet,” and that he was “not worthy to loose the latchet of the Lord’s shoe,” as in John:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory. The Jews from Jerusalem, priests and Levites, asked John who he was. And he confessed, and denied not, I am not the Christ. Therefore they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? But he said, I am not. Art thou the prophet? He answered, No. They said therefore unto him, Who art thou? He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said Isaiah the prophet. They said therefore, Why then baptizest thou, if thou art not the Christ, nor Elias, nor the prophet? He answered, I baptize with water; in the midst of you standeth one whom ye know not; He it is who is to come after me, who was before me, the latchet of whose shoe I am not worthy to unloose. When he saw Jesus, he said, Behold the Lamb of God, who taketh away the sin of the world! This is He of whom I said, After me cometh a man who was before me; for he was before me (John 1:1, 14, 19-30).

From these words it is plain that when John spoke about the Lord Himself, who was Truth Divine itself, or the Word, he said that he himself was not anything, because the shadow disappears when the light itself appears, that is, the representative disappears when the original itself makes its appearance. (That the representatives had in view holy things, and the Lord Himself, and not at all the person that represented, see n. 665, 1097, 1361, 3147, 3881, 4208, 4281, 4288, 4292, 4307, 4444, 4500, 6304, 7048, 7439, 8588, 8788, 8806.) One who does not know that representatives vanish like shadows at the presence of light, cannot know why John denied that he was Elias and the prophet.

[11] From all this it can now be seen what is signified by Moses and Elias, who were seen in glory, and who spoke with the Lord when transfigured, of His departure which He should accomplish at Jerusalem (Luke 9:29-31); namely, that they signified the Word (“Moses” the historic Word, and “Elias” the prophetic Word), which in the internal sense throughout treats of the Lord, of His coming into the world, and of His departure out of the world; and therefore it is said that “Moses and Elias were seen in glory,” for “glory” denotes the internal sense of the Word, and the “cloud” its external sense (see the preface to Genesis 18, and n. 5922, 8427).

2831. 'Behind [him] caught in a thicket' means entangled in natural knowledge. This is clear from the meaning here of 'caught in' as being entangled in, and from the meaning of 'a thicket' or fan entanglement' as factual knowledge, to be dealt with in what follows. Those who are spiritual are caught and entangled in natural knowledge as regards truths of faith for the following reasons: Those who are spiritual do not possess the perception of good and truth as those who are celestial do. Instead of perception they have conscience, which is formed from the goods and truths of faith which from early childhood they have taken in from parents and teachers, and after that from the doctrine of the faith into which they were born. The only way that those who do not possess the perception of good and truth can receive confirmation is from facts. Everyone forms some concept for himself regarding the things he has learned, and also regarding the goods and truths of faith. Without that nothing remains in the memory except as an empty vessel. Details that serve to confirm - derived from other cognitions, and even from factual knowledge - are added to and fill in the concept. The concept itself confirmed by many details not only causes itself to be fixed in the memory, from which it may be called forth into thought, but also enables faith to be instilled into it.

[2] As regards perception in general, since few know what perception is, this must be stated here. There is the perception of what is good and true in things that are celestial and spiritual; there is the perception of what is just and fair in public life; and there is the perception of what is honourable in private life. As regards the perception of what is good and true in celestial and spiritual things, this is the perception which the more interior angels possess from the Lord. It was also the perception which members of the Most Ancient Church possessed, and it is the perception which celestial people possess, who are moved by love to the Lord. These people know in an instant from a certain inner awareness whether a thing is good and whether it is true, for the Lord instills it into them because they are joined by love to Him. But spiritual people do not possess such perception of what is good and true in celestial and spiritual things. Instead of perception they have conscience which dictates. Conscience however, as has been stated, is formed from cognitions of good and truth which they have taken in from parents and teachers and later on from their own devotion to doctrine and the Word. And on these cognitions they pin their faith, even though these may not be goods and truths to any great extent. This being so, people can have a conscience that is derived from any variety of doctrine; even gentiles possess something not unlike conscience, derived from their own form of religion.

[3] The fact that those who are spiritual have no perception of the good and truth of faith but say and believe to be true that which they have learned and grasped becomes quite clear from the consideration that everyone calls his own tenets the truth - heretics more than others - and from the consideration that they are unable to see, let alone acknowledge, the truth itself, even though thousands of things might declare it. Let everyone search within himself to see whether he is able to perceive from any other source whether a thing is true, and whether when that which is absolutely true is made plain to him he still does not acknowledge it. Take for example someone who makes faith and not love the essential of salvation. Even if all the things were read out to him which the Lord spoke regarding love and charity, see 2371, and even if he knew from the Word that all the Law and all the Prophets hung on love to the Lord and charity towards the neighbour, he would still persist in the idea of faith and would say that this alone was what saved. It is altogether different in the case of those who possess celestial and spiritual perception.

[4] But as regards the perception of what is just and fair in public life, those in the world who are rational possess this, together with the perception of what is honourable in private life. So far as these two types of perception are concerned, one person differs from the next; but this in no sense implies that such persons possess the perception of the good and truth of faith, since this kind of perception is higher or more interior and flows in from the Lord by way of the inmost part of the rational.

[5] A further reason why spiritual people do not possess a perception of the good and truth of faith is that good and truth are not implanted in the will part of their minds, as in the case of celestial people, but in the understanding part; see 863, 875, 927, 1023, 1043, 1044, 2256. This is why spiritual people are not able to enter the first region of the light that celestial people dwell in, 2718, but in comparison with them are in obscurity, 1043, 2708, 2715. The fact that those who are spiritual are entangled in natural knowledge as regards truths of faith follows from this.

[6] As regards 'a thicket' or 'an entanglement' in the internal sense meaning natural knowledge, that is, factual knowledge such as becomes fixed in the exterior memory, this may also be seen from other places in the Word: in Ezekiel,

Behold, Asshur was a cedar in Lebanon, beautiful in its boughs, and a forest shade, and lofty in height, and its trunk among entangled boughs. Ezekiel 31:3.

This refers to 'Egypt', which is knowledge, 1164, 1165, 1186, 1462. 'Asshur' stands for the rational, 119, 1186, which in the Word is also 'a cedar', and 'Lebanon' as well. 'Among entangled boughs' stands for among facts, for the human rational is based on the facts known to it which it commands.

[7] In the same prophet,

Thus said the Lord Jehovih, Because you are exalted in height, and he has set his trunk up among entangled boughs, and his heart has become lifted up in his height, foreigners, the violent of the nations, will cut him down and cast him out. Ezekiel 31:10, 12.

This refers to Egypt. 'Setting his trunk among entangled boughs' stands for sticking to facts and looking at spiritual, celestial, and Divine things, from them as the standpoint. In the same prophet,

This is in order that none of all the trees by the waters may exalt themselves in their height, and set their trunk up among entangled boughs, and that none of all that drink water may reach above them in their height, for they will all be given over to death, to the lower earth in the midst of the sons of men, to those going down to the pit. Ezekiel 31:14.

This refers to those who wish by means of reasonings based on factual knowledge to penetrate the mysteries of faith; these become totally blind, see 215, 232, 233, 1072, 1911, 2196, 2203, 2568, 2588. Reasoning based on facts is the meaning of 'setting their trunk up among entangled boughs'. In the same prophet,

It had strong shoots as sceptres for those who have dominion, and its height rose up above among entangled boughs. Ezekiel 19:11.

Here the meaning is similar.

[8] In the same prophet,

The slain of Israel in the midst of their idols, around their altars, and under every green tree, and under every entangled oak. Ezekiel 6:13.

This refers to the kind of worship which people invent for themselves who have faith in themselves, and so in those things which they hatch out from their factual knowledge. 'An entangled oak' stands for facts as they exist in that particular state, 'oaks' meaning perceptions arising out of facts, see 1442, 1443, 2144. The same feature occurs elsewhere in the same prophet,

They looked at every high hill and every entangled tree, and there they offered their sacrifices. Ezekiel 20:28.

'Entangled tree' stands for things which are not dictated by the Word but by a person's own factual knowledge. The fact that worship used to take place in groves and depended for its meaning on the nature of the trees, see 2722.

[9] In Isaiah,

For wickedness will burn like a fire, it will consume brier and thorn, and will kindle the entangled boughs of the wood. Isaiah 9:18.

'Brier and thorn' stands for falsity and evil desire, 'the entangled boughs of the wood' for facts. In the same prophet,

Jehovah Zebaoth will hew down the entangled boughs of the wood with an axe, and Lebanon will fall by a majestic one. Isaiah 10:34.

'The entangled boughs of the wood' stands for facts, 'Lebanon' for rational concepts. In Jeremiah,

Raise a standard towards Zion, for I am bringing evil from the north, and a great destruction. A lion has risen up from his thicket, and a destroyer of nations has set out and come from his place to make your land a waste. Your cities will be destroyed, and left without inhabitants. Jeremiah 4:6-7.

'From his thicket' stands for from factual knowledge, and that which 'rises up' from this and enters into Divine arcana 'makes the land a waste', that is, lays waste the Church.

[10] The reason why in the Word facts are called 'thickets' is that facts are by nature like thickets, especially when the desires of self-love and love of the world, and false assumptions, exert an influence on them. Celestial and spiritual love is a love which arranges into order the facts that belong to the external memory, whereas self-love and love of the world disrupt that order and bring confusion to everything there. These are matters of which man is not aware because he takes that to be order which in fact is perverted order, that to be good which in fact is evil, and that to be truth which in fact is falsity; therefore those things are 'in a thicket'. He is also unaware of these matters because the things that belong to the external memory where facts reside are - in comparison with those that belong to the internal memory, where rational concepts reside - in a thicket, or in some gloomy woodland. How shadowy, gloomy, and darkened it is there in comparison, nobody can know as long as he lives in the body, for during that time he imagines that all wisdom and intelligence arise from facts; but he will know it in the next life when he has entered the things that belong to the internal memory. In the external memory which is proper to man during his life in the world nothing is more lacking than the light of wisdom and intelligence. But that everything there is by comparison dark, disordered, and entangled, see 2469-2494.