904. That 'God spoke to Noah' means the Lord's presence with the member of the Church becomes clear from the internal sense of the Word. The Lord speaks to everybody, for whatever good and truth a person wills and thinks comes from the Lord. With everyone there are at least two evil spirits and two angels. The former activate his evils whereas the latter instill goods and truths. Every good or truth that angels instill is the Lord's; in this way the Lord is constantly speaking to man, though quite differently from one person to the next. To people who allow themselves to be carried away by evil spirits the Lord speaks as though He were not present, or so far away that He can hardly be said to be speaking. But to those who are being led by the Lord, the Lord speaks as one who is quite present. This becomes clear enough from the fact that nobody can possibly think of anything good and true except from the Lord.

[2] The Lord's presence is relative to the state of love towards the neighbour and of faith present in a person. It is in love towards the neighbour that the Lord is present, for He is present in all good, and not so much in so-called faith that is devoid of love. Faith devoid of love and charity is something severed or disjoined. Wherever conjunction exists there has to be a conjoining agency, which is exclusively love and charity. This may become clear to anyone from the fact that the Lord has compassion on everybody, loves everyone, and wishes to make everyone eternally happy. A person therefore who is devoid of the kind of love that leads him to have compassion on others, to love them, and to wish to make them happy, cannot be joined to the Lord because he is not at all like Him, and is in no sense the image of Him. Looking to the Lord by means of that which goes by the name of faith while hating the neighbour amounts not only to standing a long way off, but also to having between himself and the Lord a hell-like chasm into which the person would fall if he wished to go any nearer. For it is hatred towards the neighbour that constitutes that intervening hell-like chasm.

[3] The Lord is present with a person the moment he starts to love the neighbour. It is in love that the Lord is present, and to the extent that a person has love the Lord is present. And to the extent that the Lord is present He speaks to man. No one knows anything other than that he thinks from himself. Yet he possesses not one single idea of thought, not even the shred of an idea, from himself. Rather that which is evil and false he possesses through evil spirits from hell, and that which is good and true through angels from the Lord. Such is influx, the channel by which a person's life comes and by which consequently his soul interacts with the body. All these considerations make clear what 'God spoke to Noah' means. 'Saying to someone' means one thing, as in Genesis 1:29; 3:13-14, 17; 4:6, 9, 15; 6:13; 7:1, while 'speaking to someone' means another. Here speaking to Noah' means His being present, for the subject now is the regenerate person, who has had charity conferred on him.

270. (Verse 4) And round about the throne were four-and-twenty thrones, and upon the thrones I saw four-and-twenty elders sitting. That this signifies all truths from good in the higher heavens, arranged by the Lord before judgment is evident from the signification of the throne on which one sat, as being the Lord as to the Last Judgment (concerning which see above, n. 267; and that throne signifies judgment, see n. 253); and from the signification of four-and-twenty thrones round about it, and four-and-twenty elders upon them, as being all the truths of heaven in the aggregate, arranged before judgment. Twenty-four signify all, and thrones signify judgment, and the elders those who are in truths from good, and, in the abstract, truths from good. The reason why the higher heavens are here meant is that all those who are there are in truths from the good of love, and that in what presently follows the lower heavens are treated of. The reason why twenty-four signify all is that that number signifies the same as the number twelve, and twelve signifies all, and is said of truths (see Arcana Coelestia 577, 2089, 2129, 2130, 3272, 3858, 3913). That the number twenty-four signifies the same as the number twelve is because it is its double, and the double signifies the same as the number from which it arises by multiplication (as may be seen, n. 5291, 5335, 5708, 7973).

[2] The same is signified by thrones upon which the twelve apostles were to sit, of which it is said in Matthew:

"Ye who have followed me in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit on the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (19:28; Luke 22:30);

where by the twelve apostles are signified all truths in the aggregate. Similarly in the following words in the Apocalypse:

"I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them" (20:4).

Judgment being given to those that sat upon the thrones signifies that judgment belongs to the Lord alone; for by elders in the Word are signified all those who are in truths from good, and abstractly, truth from good from which is judgment.

He who believes that by elders and apostles in the Word are meant elders and apostles is much deceived; for, in the spiritual sense of the Word, persons are not perceived, but things abstractly from persons; for what is spiritual has nothing in common with persons. The case is otherwise in the sense of the letter of the Word, which is natural; in this sense persons are not only mentioned, but also the idea of a person is implied in many expressions, in order that the Word in its ultimates may be natural, and thus form a basis for the spiritual sense. The same is the case with the signification of elders as with that of infants, children, young men, old men, virgins, women, and many things of the same kind. All are thought of, in the natural sense, as persons; but, in the spiritual sense, by infants innocence is meant; by children, charity; by young men, intelligence; by old men, wisdom; by virgins are meant the affections of truth and good, and by women, the goods of the church; and so in other cases. The same may be said of the natural and spiritual sense of the term neighbour. In the natural sense, by neighbour is meant every man; but in the spiritual sense are meant good itself, truth, sincerity and justice, which are in the person. Every one who thinks in himself may know that this is the neighbour in the spiritual sense; for who loves any one from anything else but the good that is in him? for good and truth constitute the man, and cause him to be loved, and not the countenance and the body. But to return to the signification of elders. That elders signify truths from good is evident from those passages in the Word where they are mentioned.

[3] As in Isaiah:

"Then the moon shall blush, and the sun shall be ashamed, and Jehovah Zebaoth shall reign in the mount of Zion and in Jerusalem; and before his elders shall be glory" (24:23).

By the moon and the sun are meant their idolatrous worship, the falsity of their faith, and the evil of their love; by mount Zion and by Jerusalem are meant heaven and the church; by the elders are meant truth from good; therefore it is also said, that before them shall be glory; for by glory is signified the Divine truth in heaven, as may be seen above (n. 33).

[4] In Lamentations:

"My virgins and my young men are gone into captivity. I have cried to my lovers, they have deceived me; and mine elders have expired in the city" (1:18, 19).

The subject here treated of is the vastation of the church, over which there is lamentation, which vastation takes place when there is no longer any spiritual affection of truth, and consequently no intelligence in such things as pertain to the church, and hence when there is no truth. By the virgins which are gone into captivity is meant the spiritual affection of truth; by the young men intelligence; captivity denotes removal from those principles; by the elders who expired are meant the truths of the church.

[5] In Ezekiel:

"Slay to destruction the old man and the young man, and the virgin, and the infant and the women; begin from my sanctuary. Therefore they began from the men, the elders who were before the house" (9:6).

The subject here treated of is also the vastation of the church; and by an old man and a young man are meant wisdom and intelligence; by virgin is meant the affection of truth and good; by infant innocence; by women goods of the church. To slay to destruction signifies devastation; the sanctuary at which they should begin signifies the church as to the good of love and the truth of faith, which are the men, the elders who were before the house.

[6] In Lamentations:

"The faces of the old men were not honoured. The elders have ceased from the gate, the young men from their singing" (5:12, 14).

The old men signify the wisdom which is of good; the elders, the truths which are from good; the young men, intelligence. That the God of Israel was seen having "under His feet as it were the work of sapphire," by Moses, Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders, and not by the rest (Exodus 24:9-12), signified that the Lord is seen only by those who are in good, and in truth from good (as may be seen in the explanation of the passage in Arcana Coelestia 9403-9411). These are the things which the seventy elders of Israel represented, and which are signified by the four-and-twenty elders sitting upon as many thrones. The same things also are signified by the twelve apostles, concerning whom it is said that they should sit upon thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (That the twelve apostles signify all truths from good, may be seen in Arcana Coelestia 2129, 3354, 3488, 3858, 6397; that the same are signified by the twelve tribes of Israel, n. 3858, 3926, 4060, 6335, and also by the elders of Israel, n. 6524, 6525, 6890, 7912, 8578, 8585, 9376, 9404.)