3293. Two nations are in thy womb. That this signifies the natural as to interior and exterior good, that there is conception, is evident from the signification of “nations,” as being goods, especially the goods of the church (see n. 1159, 1258, 1260, 1416, 1849); and that here the goods which are in the natural are signified, is evident from the fact that Esau and Jacob, who were then in the womb, represent the Lord’s Divine natural, as will become very evident from what follows, where they are treated of. The natural, like the rational, consists of good and truth; the good in the natural is all that which is of natural affection, and is called delight; but the truth is all that which is of the memory, and is called memory-knowledge. These two must be in the natural for there to be any natural. By itself, memory-knowledge abstractedly from any delight which is of affection, is not anything; for the natural has its life from the delight within it; and from this derives its ability to know anything; whereas delight, which is the good of the natural, is something without memory-knowledge; but only such a vitality as infants have. In order therefore for the natural to be human it must consist of both, the one being perfected by the other; but it has its real life from good.

[2] As regards this good which is here treated of, it is twofold, interior and exterior; the interior good communicates with the interior man, that is, with the rational; while the exterior good communicates with the external man, that is, with the things of the body, and makes the life in the external senses, and also in the actions. Without this twofold communication, man cannot live either as to the reason or as to the body. It is the interior communication which abides with man after death, and then makes his natural life, for a spirit also has natural life, inasmuch as his spiritual life is terminated in the natural as in an ultimate plane; for immediately after death a man is not able to think spiritually, except from the things that belong to his natural. The exterior communication, however, is that which a man has while he lives in the body, but this ceases by the death of the body. All this shows what is signified by “two nations in the womb,” namely the natural as to interior and exterior good. “In the womb,” in the internal sense, signifies conception, therefore it is here said “that there is conception.”