4842. 'Judah said' means in general the descendants of Jacob, specifically those descended through Judah. This is clear from the meaning of 'Judah' in the proximate sense as the nation descended from Jacob, and specifically those descended from Jacob through Judah, as also stated above in 4815. In the Word a distinction is indeed drawn between Judah and Israel, 'Judah' being used in the historical sense to mean the tribe of Judah, and 'Israel' to mean the ten tribes that had been separated from that tribe. But in the internal or spiritual sense 'Judah' represents the celestial element of the Church, which is good, and 'Israel' the spiritual element, which is truth. In the contrary sense however 'Judah' represents the evil of the Church and 'Israel' the falsity of the Church, wherever such evil or falsity existed, whether among Jews or among Israelites. For the internal or spiritual sense of the Word is universal and does not draw the same distinctions between the tribes as are drawn in the external or historical sense. This is the reason why in the proximate sense 'Judah' means the whole nation descended from Jacob, but specifically those descended from Jacob through Judah.